i hate offset flanges and never install them or even consider them a valid option...I ran into one under a toilet today, and had quite the time resetting the new toilet.anyone use these things?
offset flange...taboo?
younger-plumber
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On the same note as the offset flange..
what's the best way to "raise" a offset flange to accommodate for say new tile?
what's the best way to "raise" a offset flange to accommodate for say new tile?
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Why would it be any different than a normal flange?ASUPERTECH said:
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I just read this again, this doesn't make sense to me if the toilet is set properly there should be no gap, the top of the wax gasket should seat against underside of toilet and bottom on the flange, I always mold mine to the flange, not understanding this. If the wax isn't seated against the underside of the toilet it's not serving much purpose.Best Darn Sewer said:
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Typically, all I do with a wax ring on a regular flange is set the wax down, align the bolts, and set the toilet. A little of the inner portion of the wax sits over the lip of the metal ring and so when you set the toilet, the horn on the toilet squishes down and seals it. Being the water flows straight down into the closet bend or wye, there is no issue.
With an offset flange, however, the water that comes out of the toilet doesn't go straight down, it hits that shelf or offset which, after the toilet is set, is directly under the horn or outlet of the toilet's s-trap. The water hits that and some splashes back up and if you use a no-seep ring than water leaks from under the horn of the no-seep. If you use a regular ring without spreading it out properly the leak is less but still there. It is not because of a gap left but there's not enough wax to hold back the back splash. When you widen the diameter of the wax by using one and a 1/3 rings and set it around the outer half of the bolts, after you set the toilet, all of the wax is sitting on the top metal ring and flat part as opposed to some being squished down into the throat of the flange. Doing this protects from the back splash that occurs from water hitting the offset shelf when flushed leaking out over time due to not enough wax being on the top metal ring of the flange to dam it. Wax doesn't hold water back too well so you need more of it where the water typically splashes, which is at the top, when you have an offset. A wax ring's main purpose is to keep sewer gasses from escaping and not to stop from water leaking.
Its not easy to explain without visual references but trust me if you don't do it the way I suggest it will leak. It may take a while to notice, like a few years, but it will leak. I have had to reset many improperly set toilets on offsets and the ones where guys used normal rings but didn't adjust them leaked very slowly for a few years before the stains got too bad or the smell got to the customer and they called. Typically, flooring guys, who aren't plumbers, are notorious for using no-seep wax rings when they reset a toilet after installing new floors in the bathroom. Those only take a couple months to be noticeably leaking because the water easily splashes up between that horn and the offset shelf and leaks out.
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I get what you are saying BDS, but to say that wax doesn't hold water would suggest that every stoppage should cause water to escape the toilet flange. I don't see that. Part of the seal's job is to contain raw sewage in the event of a stoppage. If a seal, by design or otherwise, doesn't seal to the flange, then it is flawed.
I pulled pics of no-seep (my Ferguson's don't carry them) and they all have that plastic horn. What is the purpose of that horn? I have never found the benefit, but have definitely seen them cause stoppages, specifically in offset flanges.
I pulled pics of no-seep (my Ferguson's don't carry them) and they all have that plastic horn. What is the purpose of that horn? I have never found the benefit, but have definitely seen them cause stoppages, specifically in offset flanges.
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It is designed to stop from sewer gasses leaking only. Most main line stoppages do cause water to leak out at the wax but it may not be much. The wax does hold some water back but that's not its main purpose. If the flange is done properly than the gap between the bottom of the toilet and the flange is minimal so it is less likely for much water to leak out through the wax in the event of a clog.
The horn is for when you have too much of a gap between the flange and the toilet and you use a regular ring and a no-seep to make up the difference. The regular ring goes directly on top of the flange and then put the no-seep on top of that. The horn keeps the wax from the lower ring squishing or seeping into the pipe when you set the toilet, hence- no-seep.
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Unless it's in concrete there's no reason why the rough can't be dead on center. If that means notching a beam, so be it. Otherwise, head it off or move the walls to adjust to the wc. If the plumber screws up his layout and misses center line, the adjustment is on him (and that may include breaking concrete). If the fault lies with bad layout info given by others or architectural errors, the onus is on the guilty party to come up with a solution. I tell my guys if it's not crystal clear, get it in writing. Documentation is a strong prophylactic.
Similar scenario holds for when the tile wall over a shower valve is too deep for the trim. My guys get wall thicknesses verified in writing, allowing for a trail to who screwed the pooch.
Similar scenario holds for when the tile wall over a shower valve is too deep for the trim. My guys get wall thicknesses verified in writing, allowing for a trail to who screwed the pooch.
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One is round the other ovalish.. Do they make spacers in that oval shape? I've never seen one.
Get it in writing from whom? The GC? The framer laying out walls? All i can envision from a request like that is some laughter and a GTFO of here.
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The horn is a marketing gimmick that handihacks think stops leaks...
In reality they create more problems than they ever cured....
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And that would be the other reason for them. Maybe it was designed also for those who couldn't center the wax onto the flange.
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What's funny is if you read the instructions on the box it says to put the wax ring on the underside of the toilet, lol, your theory might make sense. Like Redwood said they cause more problems than anything I learned to stay away from them long ago.Best Darn Sewer said:
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Haha. Yup. I learned to ignore those directions when I set my first toilet at 17. Who wrote those?? I don't know anyone who sets the wax onto the bowl first.
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There are other wax rings that say to apply it to the bowl first. I tried it a few time to see of it made any difference. It did. As a result of this technique.....
1. I had to clean a lot of wax off my hands because it kept falling off. After the third time, I got ticked and really worked it on.
2. It took much longer because I had to put the tank on with the bowl in place instead of assembling to toilet out where I had room. This was after I cleaned my hands up so that I wouldn't triple the job cleanup time.
I see exactly zero advantage to doing it that way.
1. I had to clean a lot of wax off my hands because it kept falling off. After the third time, I got ticked and really worked it on.
2. It took much longer because I had to put the tank on with the bowl in place instead of assembling to toilet out where I had room. This was after I cleaned my hands up so that I wouldn't triple the job cleanup time.
I see exactly zero advantage to doing it that way.
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Haha. Point made.
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Yup. I have pulled many toilets that had been set with putty for who knows how long in old homes. It works. It just uses a whole tub of putty!! Haha.
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Any takers? I use pvc spacers for standard flanges, not sure what the proper technique, parts to use for raising an offset flange properly.
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Depends. I have used a brass flange with a wax ring in between the original and the spacer quite a few times with good results. The PVC ones work fine too with a ring between. I typically don't have the plastic one on hand but I always carry a brass one. It works well and is strong.
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