[sparky]

That is not a problem, it works like a vaccuum breaker and occasionally
releases some water...
I see that all the time.... maybe its ahs to do with the
incomming pressure but they are ok

I dont know if they are any different
quality hardware store vs what i get from the supply houses...

The PRO fluidmaster ones are great ballcocks...

We use the pro 45 ones with plastic shank,I see no difference in brass shank except they are more expensive,sure you get a lemon ever so often but we have rea

-Korly Pro, rated for higher pressure, so it’s an up sell esp in Condos/high rise.
View attachment 136728

hate these kind refuse to use them

 

[Tommy plumber]

I'm curious why you've had so many issues. I just checked the Fluidmaster website and the only difference between the 400A and the Pro45 I can find is they claim the Pro45 has a "special shank" to reduce noise. I call bs on that.

If they are refferring to the plastic insert screen it often makes noise worse, especially when it gets sediment stuck in it. We always take out those inserts. Only time we leave the insert in is when they have 90psi+ pressure at flow to mitigate water hammer. If the only difference is that insert I will need to check if our supply house carries the 400A and if it's cheaper. They do carry the Kohler branded version, it comes with different nipples for the refill tube rate and is a slightly smaller box. I thought about stocking those to get more space but I think they are a few bucks more.

Until I checked their website, I was thinking of the old beige fill valve as the 400. I was confused why you'd be installing those!

I used to remove them too until I had a callback from doing it.

The lady called and said that the toilet that I re-built wasn't turning off.

So when I looked at it, and raised the float up with my finger to get it to shut off, it didn't. So upon removing the hood on top of the Fluidmaster fill valve, I saw a small piece of solder which was preventing the unit from completely turning off. She had copper water piping in the house and apparently a small piece of solder had traveled up into the fluidmaster. Had I not removed the little inlet screen in the shank of the ballcock, I would never have had a callback.

So now, I don't remove them. That will catch little pieces of trash and keep the trash out of the top of the unit.

 

[skoronesa]

I used to remove them too until I had a callback from doing it.

The lady called and said that the toilet that I re-built wasn't turning off.

So when I looked at it, and raised the float up with my finger to get it to shut off, it didn't. So upon removing the hood on top of the Fluidmaster fill valve, I saw a small piece of solder which was preventing the unit from completely turning off. She had copper water piping in the house and apparently a small piece of solder had traveled up into the fluidmaster. Had I not removed the little inlet screen in the shank of the ballcock, I would never have had a callback.

So now, I don't remove them. That will catch little pieces of trash and keep the trash out of the top of the unit.

It's funny you mention that because it's the same reason we do remove them. If the solder wasn't from you then it's not a "call back". You put in a new fill valve and it coincidentally got sediment soon there after. Had the screen been in it may have not filled fast enough or made a loud noise also resulting in a call back. I have had all of these things happen and I decided it's better to have the sediment appear at the top where you can easily clean it, and tell them it's not a call back, I can't control what's in their waterr, unless....

.....if there is a reason to worry about sediment I will address that by suggesting a whole house filter. If the house is plumbed with rusty/flaking galv I make sure to tell them they may have further issues. I will sometimes suggest they let me install a wye strainer before the stop.

if you leave the screen in and it gets sediment you still have a "callback" and they may ask why you didn't purge the line before hooking up the new fill valve. Except with the screen in now it's a 5min job of disconnecting the supply line with a towel and bucket underneath and trying to pull out the sediment and the screen to clean it. Then you put it all back together and hope more doesn't show up.

With no screen you just shut the stop, take the top off the fill valve, cup your hand over it, run the water for 30secs, and put the top back on. Takes less than a minute and you flushed the line at a rate faster than the fill valve will normally draw, so it should have cleared all the loose sediment. Also, if the sediment damages the fill valve you can just replace the top portion leaving the shank/supply line alone.

I understand why you would keep the screen in, my guess is your customers mostly have city water and no galv lines. We have a lot more sediment issues to deal with because of wells and old galv. Taking the screen out has worked better for us.

 

[TerryTotoSucks]

If you remove a screen and then debris enters the valve that the screen was designed to prevent, Then you just bought some liability and a genuine call back. You altered the product in a way that contributed to the failure.

Why would anyone remove a filter then suggest installing a wye strainer ? I genuinely don’t understand that logic.

If sediment clogs the screen, then it’s not a call back. It’s a clogged screen from debris in the water supply.

I sell a repipe if sediment from the customers piping is a problem that can’t be resolved. If it’s from the supply itself then a whole house filter is in order.

 

[TerryTotoSucks]

I just hung up on Fluidmaster. I’ll call another time, I have things to do.

 

[jim285pro]

Fluid master pro/ plastic shank. Had a few failures out of the box but not many. The quick adjustment of the fluid master water level and the shank adjustment is superior to others in my opinion. Only one I’ve seen where you can remove the cap in seconds to blow it clean if needed.

 

[sparky]

I used to remove them too until I had a callback from doing it.

The lady called and said that the toilet that I re-built wasn't turning off.

So when I looked at it, and raised the float up with my finger to get it to shut off, it didn't. So upon removing the hood on top of the Fluidmaster fill valve, I saw a small piece of solder which was preventing the unit from completely turning off. She had copper water piping in the house and apparently a small piece of solder had traveled up into the fluidmaster. Had I not removed the little inlet screen in the shank of the ballcock, I would never have had a callback.

So now, I don't remove them. That will catch little pieces of trash and keep the trash out of the top of the unit.

I leave them in place also Tommy,only remove if pressure is low

 

[skoronesa]

Fluid master pro/ plastic shank. Had a few failures out of the box but not many. The quick adjustment of the fluid master water level and the shank adjustment is superior to others in my opinion. Only one I’ve seen where you can remove the cap in seconds to blow it clean if needed.

But if you leave the screen in it will clog at the screen and not at the top

This exactly what I was trying to explain. The customer that is going to blame you for schit in their pipes won't care where the valve clogs. But if it clogs at the top you can clear it quick and run, ideally not have to bill time. If you leave the screen in you'll need to mess with the supply line.

 

[sparky]

But if you leave the screen in it will clog at the screen and not at the top

This exactly what I was trying to explain. The customer that is going to blame you for schit in their pipes won't care where the valve clogs. But if it clogs at the top you can clear it quick and run, ideally not have to bill time. If you leave the screen in you'll need to mess with the supply line.

I personally think you will have less hassle and trouble with fill valve if sediment is stopped at the screen in the shank,I have seen valves not shut off or whistle or spit water with the tiniest piece of sediment in the needle valve gasket,just my useless thoughts on the matter lololololol

 

[skoronesa]

If you remove a screen and then debris enters the valve that the screen was designed to prevent, Then you just bought some liability and a genuine call back. You altered the product in a way that contributed to the failure.

Why would anyone remove a filter then suggest installing a wye strainer ? I genuinely don’t understand that logic.

If sediment clogs the screen, then it’s not a call back. It’s a clogged screen from debris in the water supply.

I sell a repipe if sediment from the customers piping is a problem that can’t be resolved. If it’s from the supply itself then a whole house filter is in order.

Because it's not designed to prevent debris from entering the fill valve. Fluidmaster sees it as an optional part designed to minimize water hammer.

The manual states "In areas of high water pressure, elements of noise, such as water hammer can be experienced. To minimize this please fit the flow regulator supplied with the valve.".

 

[skoronesa]

I personally think you will have less hassle and trouble with fill valve if sediment is stopped at the screen in the shank,I have seen valves not shut off or whistle or spit water with the tiniest piece of sediment in the needle valve gasket,just my useless thoughts on the matter lololololol

It's something we have decided to do a certain way based on our experiences. I have left them in, I have taken them out, I have installed thousands of these, and I know it's better for us to take them out. We take them out and it works out better than leaving them in, FOR US. Your experience may differ.

 

[TerryTotoSucks]

Because it's not designed to prevent debris from entering the fill valve. Fluidmaster sees it as an optional part designed to minimize water hammer.

The manual states "In areas of high water pressure, elements of noise, such as water hammer can be experienced. To minimize this please fit the flow regulator supplied with the valve.".

View attachment 136741

Ok, then you’re not removing a screen. Good job.

So why are y’all talking about removing a screen that’s not there in the shank ?

 

[sparky]

It's something we have decided to do a certain way based on our experiences. I have left them in, I have taken them out, I have installed thousands of these, and I know it's better for us to take them out. We take them out and it works out better than leaving them in, FOR US. Your experience may differ.

Agreeee,if you have a lot of well water and galv pipes it makes a difference on fill valves and really everything,I say do what works best for you and the customer

 

[TerryTotoSucks]

I personally think you will have less hassle and trouble with fill valve if sediment is stopped at the screen in the shank

Of course you would, if the shank has a screen.

I’ve used washing machine hose washers that are screened. Works great and stops nuisance calls from people with country plumbing.

 

[skoronesa]

Of course you would, if the shank has a screen.

I’ve used washing machine hose washers that are screened. Works great and stops nuisance calls.

Unless it clogs enough that there is not enough flow or it howls, then you still have a "callback".

The 400A doesn't come with a "screen" or "flow regulator", are you adding them? Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

 

[skoronesa]

If you remove a screen and then debris enters the valve that the screen was designed to prevent, Then you just bought some liability and a genuine call back. .......

No liability here, only following manufacturer's instructions.

 

[jim285pro]

I’m not modifying them. I’ve still seen very fine debris in the top. If it’s stopped up I can swap it in about 45 seconds.

 

[TerryTotoSucks]

Unless it clogs enough that there is not enough flow or it howls, then you still have a "callback".

The 400A doesn't come with a "screen" or "flow regulator", are you adding them? Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

I add screens on occasion.

stopping up the screen isn’t a call back. It’s trash in your water line.

If it didn’t get caught by a screen it ends up in the valve causing a malfunction.

That’s how I run my business. I don’t work for someone else. ✌

 

[skoronesa]

I’m not modifying them. I’ve still seen very fine debris in the top. If it’s stopped up I can swap it in about 45 seconds.

Are your customers on well water?

 

[skoronesa]

I add screens on occasion.

stopping up the screen isn’t a call back. It’s trash in your water line.

If it didn’t get caught by a screen it ends up in the valve causing a malfunction.

Most of the sediment will just pass through the valve. The slightly decreased life of the valve is preferred to repeated nuisance calls for debris in the screen.