[SlickRick]

Also, the more I think about it, who cares if the scrap master is directly connected. It can't cross contaminate anything if it backs up (which it will eventually). Everything that it touches goes straight to the dishwasher.
However, IMHO the veggie prep 3-comp sink disposal "would" potentially cross contaminate "when" it backs up. That's why I can't see it being a direct connect. JMHO. What's your thoughts?

I think you are getting the picture.

 

[6th Density]

I think you are getting the picture.

The flow keeps coming too...

... The 3 comp sink should have overflow drains installed especially (I mean MANDATORY) if the 3-comp has a disposal attached to 1 of the compartment drains and the drain is direct connect. The flood rim on a 3-comp sink is above the actual level of each individualized compartment. So this disposal compartment has the ability to back up and flood into the other compartments, because it doesn't have overflow drains on it.
I forgot about that. I hadn't seen a 3 comp sink with overflow drains on it until I was working on the new Airport here in PC.
You would think that they would be mandatory now a days, especially for new construction.

 

[SlickRick]

The flow keeps coming too...

Cut back on the Red Bulls.:laughing:

 

[6th Density]

The flow keeps coming too...

Cut back on the Red Bulls.:laughing:

Lol! Just sayin... You know, it's our responsibility to keep people safe especially when a bureaucratic governing inspection squad can't do it.

Hey I heard it first hand from the "John Boy and Billy Show" that Einstein was quoted as saying (while on his death bed), "If I had to do it all over again I'd be a plumber." I ain't joshin ya.

Plumbing is the first occupation I've found that keeps me on my toes at all times.:thumbsup:

 

[SlickRick]

The flow keeps coming too...

Lol! Just sayin... You know, it's our responsibility to keep people safe especially when a bureaucratic governing inspection squad can't do it.

Hey I heard it first hand from the "John Boy and Billy Show" that Einstein was quoted as saying (while on his death bed), "If I had to do it all over again I'd be a plumber." I ain't joshin ya.

Plumbing is the first occupation I've found that keeps me on my toes at all times.:thumbsup:

Always keep thinking and learning, we can never learn all there is to know about plumbing, that's what keeps it interesting.

And don't move to a small town.

 

[Tommy plumber]

Now that's what I'm talking about!!
So here i have this scrap master disposal system that ties into the sanitary system. It's gonna have grease!!! Imagine all the kids left over food.
It 'SHOULD' at least have its own grease interceptor before a sanitary drain connection.
Too bad it's a government funded job. The money is gone and the inspector/plans approver is a dumb ass.
Makes me start to realize that a good inspector does nothing but put more money in your pocket. This in my opinion should be a "change order" at the engineer's expense.
:yes:

Are you still at the point in your career when you think that the plumbing inspector actually knows plumbing?? :laughing:

When I was a young apprentice, I looked up to the inspectors, I thought they were all-knowing gurus of plumbing. Now I know better. Most (but not all) know less than a second year apprentice.

Footnote: For any of my highly esteemed colleagues here on PZ who are inspectors AND bona fide plumbers in their own right, I am not refering to you. :thumbsup:

 

[greenscoutII]

Are you still at the point in your career when you think that the plumbing inspector actually knows plumbing?? :laughing:

When I was a young apprentice, I looked up to the inspectors, I thought they were all-knowing gurus of plumbing. Now I know better. Most (but not all) know less than a second year apprentice.

Footnote: For any of my highly esteemed colleagues here on PZ who are inspectors AND bona fide plumbers in their own right, I am not refering to you. :thumbsup:

Not meaning to derail this thread, but inspectors here are generally required to hold a master's license, or, at a minumum, a journeyman's license and YEARS of experience. Same deal for the sparkies and their inspectors.

How are inspectors certified where you are? Just curious.....

 

[6th Density]

Not meaning to derail this thread, but inspectors here are generally required to hold a master's license, or, at a minumum, a journeyman's license and YEARS of experience. Same deal for the sparkies and their inspectors.

How are inspectors certified where you are? Just curious.....

Well actually the one in my county is pretty damn good. Got red tagged by him 2 years ago because we didn't have ball valves stamped with ASME B 16.33 for all the gas shut-off valves. There were over 20 on the job that had to be replaced after all the kitchen equipment had already been hooked up.

This neighboring county however, has a complete moron running it. The sad thing is that my county official is trying to retire. I wonder what idiot will take his place.

 

[SlickRick]

Back when I was an inspector, all the inspectors in our dept. were top notch in their fields, then the cross-training took over. We all left due to the low pay rate.

 

[Tommy plumber]

Not meaning to derail this thread, but inspectors here are generally required to hold a master's license, or, at a minumum, a journeyman's license and YEARS of experience. Same deal for the sparkies and their inspectors.

How are inspectors certified where you are? Just curious.....

If you can pass an exam here, you can work for the county as an inspector, no experience needed. That's the county, each small town or village with their own bldg. dept. is worse. I've seen an inspector pass a rough where the plumber attached pvc to cast iron without the proper transition fitting. The plumber just coupled the C.I. to pvc with the no-hub band.

Now the chief plumbing inspector for Palm Beach county is a master plumber. So there are inspectors who know what they're doing like Rick on this site, one of our moderators. But alot do double duty, inspecting plumbing and mechanical.

 

[6th Density]

Back when I was an inspector, all the inspectors in our dept. were top notch in their fields, then the cross-training took over. We all left due to the low pay rate.

Exactly! The going rate in my county is around 27,000 Chinese dollars. Rumor has it that they are trying to lay-off people, just makes more room for incompetence/ cross-training.

 

[Plumbus]

6th Destiny
Thanks for starting this thread. It got me to open up my code book and refresh myself on the rules that apply in commercial kitchens. Since we start the plumbing on a small restaurant next week, the information is very topical to me.
In those areas using the 2006 UPC,
"Pot sinks, scullery sinks, dishwashing sinks, commercial dishwasher machines, silverware washing machines and other similar fixtures shall be connected directly to the drainage system." (704.3)
"Food preparation sinks, steam kettles, potatoe peelers, ice cream dipper wells and similar equipment shall be indirectly connected to the drainage system by means of an airgap. Bins, sinks and other equipment having drainage connections and used ....in direct contact with ready-to-eat food shall be indirectly connected to the drainage system by means of an airgap. Each indirect waste pipe from food handling fixtures shall be separately piped to the indirect waste receptor and shall not combine with other indirect waste pipes." (801.2.3)
"Where it is determined by the Authority Having Jurisdiction that waste pretreatment is required, an approved type of grease interceptor...shall be ...installed in grease waste lines leading from sinks and other fixtures or equipment in serving establishments" (1014.1)
"Unless specifically required or permitted by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, no food waste disposal unit or dishwasher shall be connected to or discharge into any grease interceptor. Commercial food waste disposers shall be permitted to discharge directly into the building's drainage system." (1014.1.3)
The highlighted probably refers to the County Health Dept., not the building dept.

 

[6th Density]

6th Destiny
Thanks for starting this thread. It got me to open up my code book and refresh myself on the rules that apply in commercial kitchens. Since we start the plumbing on a small restaurant next week, the information is very topical to me.
In those areas using the 2006 UPC,
"Pot sinks, scullery sinks, dishwashing sinks, commercial dishwasher machines, silverware washing machines and other similar fixtures shall be connected directly to the drainage system." (704.3)
"Food preparation sinks, steam kettles, potatoe peelers, ice cream dipper wells and similar equipment shall be indirectly connected to the drainage system by means of an airgap. Bins, sinks and other equipment having drainage connections and used ....in direct contact with ready-to-eat food shall be indirectly connected to the drainage system by means of an airgap. Each indirect waste pipe from food handling fixtures shall be separately piped to the indirect waste receptor and shall not combine with other indirect waste pipes." (801.2.3)
"Where it is determined by the Authority Having Jurisdiction that waste pretreatment is required, an approved type of grease interceptor...shall be ...installed in grease waste lines leading from sinks and other fixtures or equipment in serving establishments" (1014.1)
"Unless specifically required or permitted by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, no food waste disposal unit or dishwasher shall be connected to or discharge into any grease interceptor. Commercial food waste disposers shall be permitted to discharge directly into the building's drainage system." (1014.1.3)
The highlighted probably refers to the County Health Dept., not the building dept.

Thanks man! At least you have a definite answer! "Commercial food waste disposers shall be permitted to discharge directly into the building's drainage system." (1014.1.3)"

And you have,
"Unless specifically required or permitted by the Authority Having Jurisdiction, no food waste disposal unit or dishwasher shall be connected to or discharge into any grease interceptor."

Enjoy the definitive answer!


I will quote my codes again,

-From Chapter 4 'fixtures, faucets, and fixture fittings'
"413.3 Commercial food waste grinder waste outlets. Commercial food waste grinders shall be connected to a drain a minimum of 2" in diameter. Commercial food waste grinders shall be connected and trapped separately from any other fixture or sink compartment."
---Couldn't that be a direct or indirect connection of at least 2"? If a floor sink of at least 2" is provided just for the garbage disposal, what difference does that make from a direct connect with a 2" p-trap?

-From Chapter 8 'Indirect/Special Waste'
"802.1 'Where required' (talk about vague AHJ save my ass lawyers mumbo jumbo) Food-handling equipment and clear-water waste shall discharge through an indirect waste pipe as specified in Sections 802.1.1 through 802.1.7.
---AHJ Authority Having Jurisdiction controls this one obviously!! Thanks for being so vague.

- From 802.1.1
"Food Handling. Equipment and fixtures utilized for the storage, preparation and handling of food shall discharge through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air gap.
---Sounds to me like a food waste grinder would fit under this category? Or call me stupid.

-From 1003.1 'Traps, Interceptors, and Separators'
"1003.1 Where Required. Interceptors and separators shall be provided to prevent the discharge of oil, grease, sand and other substances harmful or hazardous to the building drainage system, the public sewer, the private sewage disposal system or the sewage treatment plant or processes.
---IMHO almost everything draining into a kitchen has grease involved with it. Sure you could take out the hand wash lavs and such, but for the majority of it, why not run the whole system on a grease waste?

-From 1003.3.1 Grease interceptors and automatic grease removal devices required. A grease interceptor or automatic grease removal device shall be required to receive the drainage from fixtures and equipment with grease-laden waste located in food preparation areas, such as in restaurants, hotels, hospitals, school kitchens, bars, factory cafeterias and clubs. Fixtures and equipment shall include pot sinks, prerinse sinks; soup kettles or similar devices; wok stations; floor drains or sinks into which kettles are drained; automatic hood wash units and dishwashers without prerinse sinks. GREASE INTERCEPTORS AND AUTOMATIC GREASE REMOVAL DEVICES SHALL RECEIVE WASTE ONLY FROM FIXTURES AND EQUIPMENT THAT ALLOW FATS, OILS OR GREASE TO BE DISCHARED.
---IMHO sounds like any food source that has the potential of putting lard into a system, whether its a vegetable prep, meat prep, or food waste (kids trowing their uneaten food).

The big kicker
-From 1003.3.2 Food waste grinders. Where food waste grinders connect to grease interceptors, a solids interceptor shall separate the discharge before connecting to the grease interceptor. Solids interceptors and grease interceptors shall be sized and rated for the discharge of the food waste grinder.
---The big shocker for me is that my inspector for my county obviously doesn't even know this code. He's pretty strick and knows a lot IMHO. The company I work for never got red tagged for such a violation. And to top it all off, I've obviously never seen a commercial garbage disposal installed properly in this area. IMHO if an individual solids interceptor was installed for each disposal, then you could follow code and keep the disposal waste indirect and without creating a massive build-up food scrap around the floor sink perimeter when you hit the on button and food starts flying!!!

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/food-waste-solids-interceptors.html


If we don't contemplate the code then who will?,? Our crossed-trained inspectors?

 

[Plumbus]

"If we don't contemplate the code then who will?,? Our crossed-trained inspectors"

Thankfully, when it comes to complicated waste schemes, like commercial kitchens, we aren't alone. When called upon, our colleague, the plumbing engineer, generally does a thorough job of designing these ten gallons of stuff in a five gallon bucket types of systems. And, some of them are even open to suggestions and debate.

The multiple interpretations you point out would make for good topics of discussion at a local code meeting in your area, if you have such gatherings. Or, you might try your nearest ASPE chapter meeting (Birmingham, Atlanta, or Jacksonville).

 

[6th Density]

Still new to the game in terms of all of that you mentioned. I still don't have my official license, nor my business. I feel that if I called my county inspector for an answer about it, He will just blow me off because it's information for another county and I don't even send revenue in (yet) to his work.

I've just recently become a member of Florida Codetalk. But am still learning the system before I create a topic. The web design doesn't even have a search system that I've found.

But yes, this definitely needs to be answered.