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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I had an opportunity to replace an old 3-handle valve tub/shower valve with a Wolverine Brass Essence. I had an economy brand with me also. When I presented the two options to the customer, the husband was all over the Wolv. Essence. That valve was built like a tank. Everything about that valve just seemed to reek quality. I bet the showerhead weighed in at about the same as the body of the economy one.

If that valve is an indication of how they make the rest of their valves, I see no reason not to start installing them. I really want to get my hands on a lav. and kitchen faucet to check them out.

On another note, when I told the lady of the house that the cartridge had a 100 year warranty, she laughed at me, then I showed her the paperwork.

I would love to hear from those that actually install the Wolv. Brass faucet line. I know that a couple of thread have touched on them, but it can't hurt to hear some more.

Yes TM, I know your a Delta man.:laughing:
 

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I bet you didn't tell him if he needs parts that he cant call the manufacturer and request parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I bet you didn't tell him if he needs parts that he cant call the manufacturer and request parts.
He can't call the manufacturer and get parts, so why would I tell him that? If I'm not mistaken, only a plumber can buy and install those parts(as I read the paperwork). With a 100 year warranty, seems I won't have to worry for quite a while.
 

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Good thread.


Last week a customer called me, had her mother meet me there to unclog a toilet. The woman told me that she couldn't find the phone number to the plumber who installed the brass lavatory faucets just last month.


I told that woman, "Do you know that only that installing plumber can get parts for it, and that you won't find parts at a supply house or big box store?"


I didn't even have to lie.


I'm now their plumber as she took this move as deceptive, even though she had a positive experience with the plumber. He just didn't divulge that knowledge.


I was at a home today that a Wolverine Brass fill valve in a toilet is malfunctioning...told the customer I can't even buy the leathers for that without BS.

Told her I can switch it to a 400A,

DONE.

I make money gaining the trust of the new customer with that revelation. Thanks Wolverine Brass. :laughing:
 

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I have installed a lavatory faucet. T/S faucet and I do have a kitchen faucet in the shop on the shelf/ WB is a good product. As for my customers I flat out tell em you can't find parts for these faucets you will have to contact us. Parts are free for 100 years and I give a X amount of warranty on my labor. They still jump on it like fly on a cow patty.
 
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I have a lifetime warranty from circuit city for my car stereo installation.......WTF is it good for now? F a warranty and especially one that I need a 3rd party for me to get it honored.
 

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Just another one of those things we agree to disagree on...

There are a couple of shyster outfits up here that sell WB stuff...

Yea I get a lot of their calls.

They seem to be going for that get your foot in every door one time effect....

I like going back for other jobs...:thumbup:
 

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I use the Endurance line, with the loop handle. Good stuff.

Over the weekend, I was at a party at my old house. (relatives of a friend purchased it from me, 11 years ago.)

The 1st floor bath had WB endurance in it. I believe I remodeled that bath about 14 years ago, and those faucets (lav and t/s) were looking like new:thumbsup:.

I did get a funny look from the chick that owns the place. She musta heard me turn the shower on. I was checking it out, to see how the handle felt and all. :laughing:

(That might make a good thread, "as a plumber, what do you do/look at in other houses/buildings)
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Putting in Wolverine Brass has nothing to do with trying to deliberately deceive a customer. It has everything to do with wanting to put in the best product, for the customer.
I personally don't have to worry about my own moral compass, because I am never out to rip off a customer. I really have a severe dislike for those plumbers that go out and rip on their competition.

Dunbar: Good for you, you gained another customer. The funny thing is, if they had the number for the original plumber, you would never have known. Good catch, without you, they might have never known that the other plumber was out to rip them off with gimmicks.

As for the agree to disagree: I agree. I want to install the best product for my customers, plain and simple. We had a meeting with one of our suppliers today, letting them know our displeasure with the junk fittings and products they have been sending us. We want to use the best products and if he can't get them, then he loses our business.

For those, who go out and rip on the competition: Shame on you, it does know one any good to speak negative about others.
 

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Selling a faucet that the customer cant buy parts is not doing them any favors....i dont care how good the faucet is suppose to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Selling a faucet that the customer cant buy parts is not doing them any favors....i dont care how good the faucet is suppose to be.
If you would care to elaborate. How does selling a faucet that repairs parts can be found at a local hardware a good thing? I understand that you are successful with what you do, and have been in the trade for a long time. For the sake of those who don't understand(Me), help me understand. Is in not in my best interest to install a good product, and not make it easy for any handy-hack to go get repair parts for.
 

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Here we go again:icon_rolleyes::wallbash:
 

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If you would care to elaborate. How does selling a faucet that repairs parts can be found at a local hardware a good thing? I understand that you are successful with what you do, and have been in the trade for a long time. For the sake of those who don't understand(Me), help me understand. Is in not in my best interest to install a good product, and not make it easy for any handy-hack to go get repair parts for.
Perhaps WB is actually looking out for the homeowner. WB knows what damage can result when plumbing is done by a novice. That's why they make an excellent product that will last so the HO does not have to bother with fixing it. If for some reason, a part would fail . . . WB protects the HO from themselves. Just a thought.

Also, WB faucets are priced at a very competitive price. No $700.00 faucets at WB. Also, they don't re-invent the wheel every year and change cartridges, parts etc. For the plumbing repair co., stocking repair parts is much easier.

I know others don't agree because they don't want to be bothered with having to call WB direct and getting the part.

However, what's the difference in what other manufacturers do? American Standard faucets - you have to wait for them to ship the part. HO was without a working k.s. faucet for one week. Kohler parts - you have to wait for Kohler to ship and we all know how that goes. Toto parts - we wait for parts to be shipped. Grohe parts - we wait for parts. Jacuzzi tubs - we wait for parts to be shipped.

If WB would only sell to one plumber in an area, then I would agree. However, any licensed plumber can order from WB!

In our area there are at least 14 plumbing cos. selling WB. Customers are not held captive to any particular plumbing company.

I guess plumbers who hard pipe water heaters are SOB's because it makes it harder for the HO to replace their own water heater if they cannot solder.

I guess plumbers who use PEX are jerks because the average HO does not want to invest in crimping tools to repair their own plumbing.

Explain to me as well why WB is so bad? I really do not get it.

I think plumbers should be more upset about companies like Delta mass producing junk and selling out the plumbing professional who put them on the map.
 

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If you would care to elaborate. How does selling a faucet that repairs parts can be found at a local hardware a good thing? I understand that you are successful with what you do, and have been in the trade for a long time. For the sake of those who don't understand(Me), help me understand. Is in not in my best interest to install a good product, and not make it easy for any handy-hack to go get repair parts for.
You answered your own question. Your making it hard for most to get parts. Put this in your next sales presentation....."This wolverine faucet has a great warranty but in the event that it does need repair in say 10 years.....no hardware store around will have the parts and you cant buy them yourself and wolverine will not send you a cartridge for it but they will send it to me and then i will charge you to install it,so dont bother ever trying to buy parts"......see how well that goes over with MOST MALE customers.

I would immediately think to myself....."where is this punk gonna be in 10 years and who else around here MIGHT agree to work on it?"
 

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TM - You have said many times that the LadyLux faucet is the best. I think you even said you had one in your home.

Does Lowes or Home Depot carry repair parts?

If the home owner calls Grohe, will they know what part to order?

If the home owner takes it apart, do you really think the supply house will jump through hoops to get this HO a part? I think not.

I heard directly from a Kohler Rep. "If a plumber calls for information or has a warranty issue, he will get immediate attention and assistance. If a HO calls, they will be asked where they bought the faucet and who installed it. If it was purchased from a home center, they will tell the customer to take it back to the home center."

I've never tested it out to see if it is true, but if it isn't a Kohler rep. flat out lied to me!

I will take my chances with WB.
 

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TM - You have said many times that the LadyLux faucet is the best. I think you even said you had one in your home.

Does Lowes or Home Depot carry repair parts?

If the home owner calls Grohe, will they know what part to order?

If the home owner takes it apart, do you really think the supply house will jump through hoops to get this HO a part? I think not.

I heard directly from a Kohler Rep. "If a plumber calls for information or has a warranty issue, he will get immediate attention and assistance. If a HO calls, they will be asked where they bought the faucet and who installed it. If it was purchased from a home center, they will tell the customer to take it back to the home center."

I've never tested it out to see if it is true, but if it isn't a Kohler rep. flat out lied to me!

I will take my chances with WB.
I do think the ladylux is the best k-faucet and I do own one and I like it. A homeowner can call grohe and get parts without a problem and they can get them for free. Its in the warranty. They ship them directly to the customer for free. Lifetime warranty. Cant do that with wolverine....infact its the ONLY faucet I know of that you cant call up and get your warranty honored.
 

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PC, that Kohler rep definitely lied to you.

I've had a few customers call Kohler and were sent free parts.

I have a Kohler kitchen faucet, I needed a part a few times, they never asked where I got it or if I was plumber.

BTW, I'm not a big Kohler fan but I've mostly had good experiences with their customer service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I do think the ladylux is the best k-faucet and I do own one and I like it. A homeowner can call grohe and get parts without a problem and they can get them for free. Its in the warranty. They ship them directly to the customer for free. Lifetime warranty. Cant do that with wolverine....infact its the ONLY faucet I know of that you cant call up and get your warranty honored.
Ok, TM, we're not going to agree on this. But, I will make a few more points.
1. I do disclose that the parts are only available to a plumber(siince I only installed one in the last four years). I also tell them that when I sell a Bradford White heater, I let them know BW is only sold to the Plumbing Professional. Yes you can buy repair parts for the BW, but their not OEM.
2. If I'm out there, its because they called for a plumber, so their not interested in fixing it themselves.
3. I obviously service a different clientele than you do, so don't speak for my customers until you've worked for them. I would not know how to service yours without learning their habits.
Just today I went out to the lake house of a CEO of a local chain of Hospitals, because his attempt to repair his toilets failed, and he didn't know how to repair the shower valve. Do you think he would want me to leave him the parts on the counter with instructions?
Can we still be friends?:lol:
 

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I do think the ladylux is the best k-faucet and I do own one and I like it. A homeowner can call grohe and get parts without a problem and they can get them for free. Its in the warranty. They ship them directly to the customer for free. Lifetime warranty. Cant do that with wolverine....infact its the ONLY faucet I know of that you cant call up and get your warranty honored.
The HO can get it if they know what to ask for (I'm referring to the Ladylux).

Back to WB, if we installed a WB faucet and a few years down the line the customer needed a new cartridge, I would be more than happy to get them one for free. Again, it makes no sense for a company to hold the customer hostage. We want them dependent on us, but not at the expense of losing a customer.

So what they want to replace their own cartridge - they will still need us for future plumbing.

We will succeed because ultimately we do take care of our customers and put their needs at the forefront. We look for long term loyal customers with long term gains. Short term gains serves no one well if you hope to stay in business.
 

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PC, that Kohler rep definitely lied to you.

I've had a few customers call Kohler and were sent free parts.

I have a Kohler kitchen faucet, I needed a part a few times, they never asked where I got it or if I was plumber.

BTW, I'm not a big Kohler fan but I've mostly had good experiences with their customer service.
Maybe he did not lie. Maybe that is what he was told. IDK. None of them impress me 100% of the time. I've had problems with all of them at one time or another. Bottom line is no plumbing manufacturer is 100% perfect.

I don't believe Delta, Kohler, Moen etc. are all evil.

They all have their flaws and short comings. WB not selling to HO's will be seen as a short coming to some and others will love it. :yes:

HO's cannot buy the ProSeries Fluidmaster line. That does not make Fluidmaster evil either.

Dollar for dollar, at this time I believe WB is a better value.
 
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