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For single handle? Brizo multichoice with a delta pressure balance cartridge. Because delta cartridges are easy to rebuild and when I ask the supply house for a single handle delta shower faucet that’s what they give me lol.

for 2 and 3 handle I go with American standard Colony. thatIs the preference of both my current boss and my previous boss so I guess I don’t really have a good reason why. That’s just me doing what I know works.

I like moen too and have installed a few positemp shower faucets. I especially like the fact that some of them have the shut offs right on the valve so you don’t have to turn the water off to the house to change the cartridge out.

What’s your preference?
 

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We're a kohler dealer so we do a lot of 304's but the moen 1200 is pretty great if your water quality is such that the pbv spools aren't too hard to change. Symmons are always a good choice too and chicago faucet makes some great trim kits for them.

I had to replace the cartridge in a water works volume control valve the other day, 374$ for the cartridge. Back in the day all we put in were moen 1200 shower valves, delta ball kitchen faucets, moen 1200 lav faucets, and mansfield toilets.
 

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Only Moen and I have some left over delta. Delta is on the way out, cartridge are at 120$ plus mark up and people get angry I'm robbing them.

Moen: I haven't had too many problems getting tub/shower cartridges out with a puller. For roman tubs however they are a nightmare.
 

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Delta Multi choice, knock out the shower restrictor for full flow. Moen next but machined ports are only so big . No big thing unless you have a divertor valve after the mixing valve and want to run more than one shower head. The Delta multi choice has better flow. Both cartridges have their issues. Does anyone else use a Moen tub / shower faucet for just a shower stall. I connect the shower head to the port for the tub spout and cap the port that went to the shower, much better flow but a pain to construct. Delta much easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I mainly install Moen positemp or Moentrol, but the cartridges for the positemp keep going up in price (if you don't play the system and get em for free), and sometimes those cartridges are a real pain to get out. I hate to install a piece of hardware just because that's "what I was taught." I want to know that what I am putting in is going to last, and is right.

Here in UT cartridges on positemps last maybe about nine months to a year because of the hard water.

Have you guys noticed any valves that seem to deal with hard water better than others?
 

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Moen positemp here. 90+% of the time the cartridge comes out with little to some force. Though I have run into ones that I had to drill out and ultimately had to replace. It’s all about age and water quality.

Personally I like the Troll, but the posi is what my master prefers.

When I install one I hand the customer the paperwork and tell them to call Moen and tell them that the faucet is about 5 years old, it’s dripping and their plumber said they need a new cartridge. That way they don’t have to wait, or pay my price for a new one when they need one.
 

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why dont you clean your shower . your toilet probably looks worse. you are probably one of those slobs that complain about the extra charge for having to put my face by your nasty uncleaned toilet. dont worry , i took a couple of towels out of your cabinet, covered your toilet, fixed it and then folded them neatly and placed them back in your cabinet.
 

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why dont you clean your shower . your toilet probably looks worse. you are probably one of those slobs that complain about the extra charge for having to put my face by your nasty uncleaned toilet. dont worry , i took a couple of towels out of your cabinet, covered your toilet, fixed it and then folded them neatly and placed them back in your cabinet.
I see you started drinking early tonight ;)
 

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The customers toilet and countertops aren’t your work bench unless you cover it with a terry cloth towel or drop cloth.
I keep a 4x5 drop cloth right in my tool bag.
 

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........Have you guys noticed any valves that seem to deal with hard water better than others?
We have extremely hard water here(up to 30gpg) and if you're talking single handle than a moen 1200 WITHOUT a PBS seems to be the best.

I would say symmons is 2nd so long as the seats hold up. The old fashioned faucet washer and bibb seat works best, and a symmons is like a single handle version of that. After moen three handle central brass valves are the next most common around here. Central stuff is so common I keep a couple of 5$ 1/2-24 monel seats on the van.

I just replaced the volume control in a waterworks that relied on a sort of diaphragm for pressure balance control so it was very resistant to failure from hard water. But that replacement cartridge cost us 374$ from france plus shipping.

The advantage with moen is that the areas where the lime builds up are rubber on brass where as with most others the lime is building up between two, large, flat, hard, surfaces which makes them very difficult to pull apart once the lime has cemented them together.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
The advantage with moen is that the areas where the lime builds up are rubber on brass where as with most others the lime is building up between two, large, flat, hard, surfaces which makes them very difficult to pull apart once the lime has cemented them together.
That's a very good point
 

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That's a very good point
Moen 1200 cartridges might not last the longest but it's not really about how long until they fail, it's about the way in which they fail. If a cartridge last 10 years but then you have to change the whole valve because you can't remove it you'll find you'd rather have a cartridge that only last 5 years but you can actually replace it.

The kohler 304 and the delta single handle ceramic attack this problem by putting the cartridge in an oversize housing. Of course with the 304 the pbv spool cartridge is still kind of a tight fit but almost always needle nose pliers do the trick. The delta really sucks if it freezes but that's a rare occurence which should warrant a whole new valve body anyway.
 
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