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Discussion Starter #1
Had to vent a little here. Is it me or are most of the GC's that supposedly run remodels either idiots or just plain lazy. Somehow we have three of them that we went over the job with a fine toothed comb, detailed explicitley what was in the bid and finally went over a detailed timeline, and they still seem to screw things up. One had us bid a simple 1700 series shower valve and a simple Delta 520-TP lav. faucet. We went to the job this morning and guess what, he tells my plumber that they want to change to a Kohler Shower Tower and a wall mount lav. faucet. He gets mad when the plumber tells him that he cant do it because #1, it is not on his work order and he has to have authorization to deviate and #2 he has the set up for 1/2" water lines and a 2" drain. The GC wanted him to go ahead and start and would hammer out the details with me later. I told him we needed to rework the bid since it was not what was bid and that my plumbers would need to go to another job. He "fired us" because we didn't start the job as per the first bids timeline. :furious: This was just after yesterday when a GC tried to get our plumbers to add, GET THIS, 500000 extra BTU's on a gas job for a house. He told them that adding gas for a pool heater, 65K BTU range and a generator shouldn't cost too much to add. What the hell. I'm done with the ranting.
 

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Seems like anymore we are seeing tradesmen doing less and less.Either deliberately or unintentionaly out of ignorance through lack of experience.I can't believe how many tile contractors are running jobs for homeowners right now,tacking on their 15% for access to their network and a couple of phone calls.
I guess we can only expect things to get worse until some type of across the board action is taken by officials.It would be so easy for my state to put their foot down and start setting up stings.

You ever work with these guys before?
How well did you set them? I've found that subcontractors that are wide open "yes" men have more of a tendency to have Generals that are out of control needy,unnorganized,got to have it right now kids.

Takes a while to get a network of people together to where you don't have to deal with outsiders.This economic cycle has pushed a lot of the good/honest guys out leaving a lot of pass the buck bullsh**ers. Can't wait to see what the future brings on the next upswing.Although I think I have a pretty good idea.

A lot of times either the homeowner added something as an after thought or the General forgot and they deliberately do not prepare the sub thinking that we will just "Throw it in" to hide anothers lack of planning.
Or could just be another greedy rat thinking your in the hole and will do anything for a buck.

Educate your contractor.
Let him know he will carry his own weight or your going to have to let him go.

They could have easily called ahead of time and didn't for fear you would do the right thing and charge accordingly.
Sorry
 

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GC calls: Youse guys want to bid a 12 unit condo?
Me: (long pause) Naaah. (long pause) Where's it at?
GC: 30th St
Me: (long pause) Naaaah. Bye Now.
:laughing:

Never let anyone determine your future.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Trust me, we go over every detail with our builders. We do backgound checks, credit checks and have access to liens filed in the area. Most of the 30+ builders we do work for are well educated and time oriented. We just picked up a few in the down times that we normally wouldn't do, while our others are gearing up. Funny how these two acted so professional and well adjusted only to find they were full of bull on their knowledge. I really wish Oklahoma had a law whereby builders had to be licensed. I mean hell, we are licensed out the wazoo AND do CE courses to maintain our licenses. I have calmed down from this morning, maybe it's the 7 straight days of raining, don't know how Seattle does it. Thanks for listening.
 

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GC calls: Youse guys want to bid a 12 unit condo?
Me: (long pause) Naaah. (long pause) Where's it at?
GC: 30th St
Me: (long pause) Naaaah. Bye Now.
:laughing:

Never let anyone determine your future.
I've turned down every condo to date.I'm not in a position to cover myself completely to my satisfaction.
Getting sued is like riding street bikes,it's not a matter if you crash it's when and how bad it's going to hurt.
It has gotten better over the years now that everyone(including your insurance company) knows that a law suit is more than likely coming your way.Wrap insurance packages makes me feel a lot better,though I may never get into production.
A member here explains the law process to me in such a casual matter of fact it really opens my eyes to how much we can get into trouble by not keeping things under our control.

So no,the plumber's employee does not just start plumbing under the pointing finger of the General.
 

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I have 2 GREAT GC's I work for ,,,that's 2 . The rest ,,over the years seemed clueless and cheap ,,,, a BAD combination .

You were lucky to "be fired " ,,,, you'll be working when that guy is begging for work .

Cal
 
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If you have a signed contract for the work and they decide to change, then you need a change order. If you're not using contracts that spell out everything, then you can expect this sort of run-around.

I should have learned my lesson on the very first job I ever did in business. I was still working at my day job and at night had contracted to plumb a new house. (No competition to my employer.)

When I got to the job, there was a concrete overpour the size of the basement bath IN the basement bath - about 8" thick. I immediately called the general and told him about it. "Just go ahead and move it and I'll make it right with you," he said.

I had a helper that I was paying to break it out and it took both of us about eight hours. The general's heart was falling out of his shirt - he paid us a total of $50 for the work.

I have to admit to being a slow learner. Over the years, a lot of people have said, "We'll make it right with you," and I no longer have any doubts that they just want me to bend over and provide the lube as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
We had a signed, we require notarized, contract with the GC. He did not want to wait for the change order. Thus for us, no change order no additional work. Found out he went to several other companies, one of which is a friend that I was an apprentice for, and somehow got one to start the work. Oh well let them have the headaches.
 

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We had a signed, we require notarized, contract with the GC. He did not want to wait for the change order. Thus for us, no change order no additional work. Found out he went to several other companies, one of which is a friend that I was an apprentice for, and somehow got one to start the work. Oh well let them have the headaches.
Notarized,first I've heard.Sounds like it may be something to help add protection.
Is it common in your region?
What's the intent vs. standard contract.
 

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:laughing: :laughing:Where did you find that? Or are those yours Redwood?:whistling2:
I wish they were mine!:laughing:
My boat is just a tad bit smaller than that!:whistling2:
Just a bit...

One of my customers (large construction firm, site work and excavation) the owner has it hanging on the wall in his office...

The owner has a lot of properties and I take care of his drain clraning work. We're both ex USAF Civil Engineering Squadron guys...

I just remembered the pic and googled (helgore'd) it up...:laughing:
Figured you guys would like it...
 

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As a GC I can tell you that neither of those two had their client's best interests in mind when any of this went down. If a client changes the scope of work or specifications of a job, then there must be a change order for us to continue.

Just "getting started" on it is exactly the wrong thing to do. You went out there with a contract in hand to do the work that he requested. If you want to get his attention and make him understand that he must play by the rules, send him a bill for work to date, even if just for deployment and a letter of intent to lien the property. Let him know you're more than happy to work with him to settle this, but springing this on your plumber and expecting to "work it out later" is totally unacceptable.

This is the result of poor planning and irresponsible and uninitiated hope against hope that others will step in and save his butt for his lack of experience and foresight.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Double-A, to whom are you referring in this statement.

"As a GC I can tell you that neither of those two had their client's best interests in mind when any of this went down."?
 
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