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Illinois Licensed Plumber
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Nobody seems to make them. What's the point of installing K pipe if the fittings are type L?
I only install K copper underground in one full length from the B-box to the inside of the home. Once inside and above ground the requirement is back to Type L. So I never had the need for any fitting other than flare for underground work.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So you are saying that the actual wall thickness of the fittings are the same as the equivalent size K pipe or thicker in all water exposed parts of the fitting?
 

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I'm pricing a job now that is requiring all above slab water piping to be Type K. Not normal for this area.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Again, why even bother with K copper if the fittings are thinner than the pipe? If anything I would want the fitting wall thickness a bit thicker than the pipe.

Almost every pinhole I ever repaired (hundreds) on hard copper was on the fitting not the pipe.

Soft copper is a different story.
 

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The only reason I could see them wanting type K copper is for "longetivity." I did one job in Pitt Meadows SPH where they spec'd type K for the hot lines, and type L for the cold lines.

But if they want longetivity, they should spec Fusiotherm/Aquatherm Fusion Polypropolene. It does have a fire rating and it'll outlast Copper in a lot of applications.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've got an owner/builder who want a house built with copper. I've explained that copper doesn't do well here but they still want it. If I've got to do it in copper I at least want it to be hard copper and as thick as I can get it.

I have considered brass fittings but then I’ve got to worry about turbulence, casting defects, and dezincification.

They good thing is that the system is going to be fed well water with little or no chlorination. In this area, copper water systems last 50-60 years on well water and 15-30 on city water. I’m just being ultra cautious as I make my living removing copper and putting in PEX and I now have a HO making me put copper in. I’m only going to give a 10 year warranty on the copper no matter what kind goes in so it’s not a liability thing; it’s a being able to sleep at night thing.
 

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Nibco's website states

Q: Copper tubing wall thickness is designated “K,” “L” or “M.” What
are the copper fittings applicable to?
A: Copper fittings’ wall thickness is determined by standards (ASME
B-16:22 and MSS-SP-104). These standards address minimum wall
thickness (per size) for the full range of copper fittings and are not​
intended to match tubing wall thicknesses.
 

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Sooooooooooo, does that mean the fittings are as thick or thicker than type K?
It means if you want to spend $40 you can buy the Standard and find out what the thickness of various fittings are. The manufacturers use to have charts but I can't find one right now. As I recall in the 1/2" through 1" the fittings are closer to a Type L tube thickness and then they get thicker as they increase in size.

Mark
 
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I think Propress fittings are all type K. How is it they keep the same thinkness during forging?
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Anybody have a micrometer and some fittings handy?


Got 10,000 copper fittings, but no micrometer.


From what I gather in florida....it's the water, not the piping that's all the things wrong with pipe failures.


I have friends in west pompano beach that has copper piping, so does their neighbors..and nothing of the nature you mention about these copper failures in their parts of the state.

Don't think I don't I believe....I do. But if that water down there is that caustic to copper, it's destroying other components of the plumbing system as well.

I had a customer in regards to my 2nd business contact me about fans, and they asked me something I thought was interesting. They asked about the finish/durability of my product. I asked why they was asking and they went on to say that they are about 1 mile from the ocean front, and the moisture in the air literally destroys metal/aluminum products over time. She said that if you look at homes on the waterfront, you'l see random deterioration of window sills, rotting aluminum and other quirky situations that the salt content in the air destroys. << That was a school in Juno Beach Florida.


Somebody ought to file class action lawsuits on behalf of the building industry down in those geographical hot spots where it's destroying the copper, get compensation for the expenses and then put pex in, or copper if the water municipality understands what it's doing to the plumbing systems down there.


If copper started destroying itself in my area, I'd be putting hard pressure on the water district for what they're doing, and I don't care if there's distant timelines before failure. The **** has a 80+ year and going strong reputation up here.

But then again, there's an area in georgetown kentucky where you can't even think about putting copper in the ground because it's so damn acidic.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Says you. As I said before almost every time I find a pin hole on a hard copper system it's on a fitting not the pipe. The 1 in 40 that I find on a hard piece of pipe is from flux or E/C. So If I'm going to put copper in the ground under a slab in an area known to have problems I want the fittings to be thicker.

They don't have to be, as they go through the annealing process twice instead of once like the tube does.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Your friend is correct, south Florida doesn't have any problems. My grand mother lives in Boca Raton and my uncle in North Miami Beach. Both buildings are about 50+ years old and have never had even one leak on the copper except for some dwv waste arms.

Got 10,000 copper fittings, but no micrometer.


From what I gather in florida....it's the water, not the piping that's all the things wrong with pipe failures.


I have friends in west pompano beach that has copper piping, so does their neighbors..and nothing of the nature you mention about these copper failures in their parts of the state.

Don't think I don't I believe....I do. But if that water down there is that caustic to copper, it's destroying other components of the plumbing system as well.

I had a customer in regards to my 2nd business contact me about fans, and they asked me something I thought was interesting. They asked about the finish/durability of my product. I asked why they was asking and they went on to say that they are about 1 mile from the ocean front, and the moisture in the air literally destroys metal/aluminum products over time. She said that if you look at homes on the waterfront, you'l see random deterioration of window sills, rotting aluminum and other quirky situations that the salt content in the air destroys. << That was a school in Juno Beach Florida.


Somebody ought to file class action lawsuits on behalf of the building industry down in those geographical hot spots where it's destroying the copper, get compensation for the expenses and then put pex in, or copper if the water municipality understands what it's doing to the plumbing systems down there.


If copper started destroying itself in my area, I'd be putting hard pressure on the water district for what they're doing, and I don't care if there's distant timelines before failure. The **** has a 80+ year and going strong reputation up here.

But then again, there's an area in georgetown kentucky where you can't even think about putting copper in the ground because it's so damn acidic.
 

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NDL Industries

NDL Industries has thicker fittings. I think they started in New Zealand years ago when there was a scare of ozone depleting chemicals escaping to the atmosphere.
 
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