[Protech]

Apparently some of you out there do not know this:

13-612.AB.3.4 Solar water heating systems. Solar systems for domestic hot water production are rated by the annual solar energy factor of the system. The solar energy factor of a system shall be determined from the Florida Solar Energy Center Directory of Certified Solar Systems. Solar collectors shall be tested in accordance with ISO Standard 9806, Test Methods for Solar Collectors, and SRCC Standard TM-1, Solar Domestic Hot Water System and Component Test Protocol. Collectors in installed solar water heating systems should meet the following criteria:

1. Be installed with a tilt angle between 10 degrees and 40 degrees of the horizontal; and

2. Be installed at an orientation within 45 degrees of true south.




So the next time I roll up to a HOs house and see a collector flush mounted on a North, East or West facing roof deck I am calling code enforcement! This crap is getting old! :furious:



Florida solar water heater, Florida solar water heating, solar water heater, solar domestic water heater, solar collector mounting, solar collector orientation, solar panel orientation, collector azimuth

 

[Tommy plumber]

Sounds like you've installed a good number of solar systems. I've only replaced existing systems, ie: panels, W/H's, etc. I have not installed a new system.

If I ever have a new install, I'll be sure to ask you if I have any questions or concerns.

 

[McSlagerhaden]

Collectors in installed solar water heating systems should meet the following criteria:

Apparently you need to learn the difference between "shall" and "should." Go ahead - call. It's a recommendation, not a requirement in the code.

 

[stillaround]

Onliest thang ...once it be sayin should...and a lawyer looks into the jury's eyes and points to the defendant ......what he should have known.....is going to mean shall....

 

[Tommy plumber]

Apparently you need to learn the difference between "shall" and "should." Go ahead - call. It's a recommendation, not a requirement in the code.

You 'shall' post us an intro; all newbies are required to do so. Then, 'should' you wish to post, you may do so.


How's that for correctly using 'shall' and 'should'?

shall=mandatory
should=optional

 

[Protech]

So, even though you would be a dumbass for not doing it right, you would technically be able to get away with it. :whistling2:

Apparently you need to learn the difference between "shall" and "should." Go ahead - call. It's a recommendation, not a requirement in the code.

 

[ckoch407]

I have personally been through the "mandatory language" arguments of shall and should with inspectors before. They do interpret it that way, as does the legal system. Shall, will, must vs should. Should holds no water in the court room and there are mountains of precedence that supports it.

 

[stillaround]

I have personally been through the "mandatory language" arguments of shall and should with inspectors before. They do interpret it that way, as does the legal system. Shall, will, must vs should. Should holds no water in the court room and there are mountains of precedence that supports it.

I have personally sat across from a judge who was as ignorant as a toadstool, and he asked me what was the "best" way to install something.....and no suprise he awarded to the homeowner $1500.....based only on what was the best way.....

I cant believe someone can argue for what you can get away with on $5000 systems....

 

[Protech]

So again, even though you would be a dumbass for not doing it right, you would technically be able to get away with it.

That would still make you a hack if you do it the wrong way. You would be going against industry standards set forth by the FSEC. You would be selling a product of poor value to your unwitting clients.

That would put anyone not adhering to these guidelines in the same category as PCPlumber, a blight on the industry.

I have personally been through the "mandatory language" arguments of shall and should with inspectors before. They do interpret it that way, as does the legal system. Shall, will, must vs should. Should holds no water in the court room and there are mountains of precedence that supports it.

 

[Protech]

They have a jury on pesky little civil trails? Usually just a judge. The concept still works though.

Onliest thang ...once it be sayin should...and a lawyer looks into the jury's eyes and points to the defendant ......what he should have known.....is going to mean shall....

 

[ckoch407]

So again, even though you would be a dumbass for not doing it right, you would technically be able to get away with it.

That would still make you a hack if you do it the wrong way. You would be going against industry standards set forth by the FSEC. You would be selling a product of poor value to your unwitting clients.

That would put anyone not adhering to these guidelines in the same category as PCPlumber, a blight on the industry.

Yes and yes. You would be a dumbass/hack/ripoff for doing it that way. And yes you could get away with it pursuant to the existing language of "should". Would I do it that way? Hell to the no. All of my installs face true south and or get a tilt kit. They are all boiling hot as we speak.

 

[ckoch407]

I have personally sat across from a judge who was as ignorant as a toadstool, and he asked me what was the "best" way to install something.....and no suprise he awarded to the homeowner $1500.....based only on what was the best way.....

I cant believe someone can argue for what you can get away with on $5000 systems....

Man that sucks. I guess that goes to show anything can happen in the legal system and we get as much Due Process as we can afford. A good lawyer would have shredded that judge. But good lawyers usually cost more than what he nailed you for. Creep must've been watching dateline the night before.

 

[McSlagerhaden]

So again, even though you would be a dumbass for not doing it right, you would technically be able to get away with it.

That would still make you a hack if you do it the wrong way. You would be going against industry standards set forth by the FSEC. You would be selling a product of poor value to your unwitting clients.

a) FSEC is an annoying impediment to the industry in many ways, and the "standards" are not necessarily what people *want* which is ultimately what counts (all that liberty we enjoy 'round here).

b) Who the hell are you to say what's "right" (and call me a dumbass, dumbass). If there are no optimal roof faces and a customer want's a collector on their NE roof, and the insist on it, and they sign a waiver acknowledging the performance (lack thereof), then it is entirely within their rights to have it, and entirely in my rights to give it to them. What you are advocating is some sort of fascist "nobody should drive a Ferrari" or more aptly "nobody should drive a Kia" mentality. You are everything that is wrong in the solar business. Suboptimal is not illegal, immoral, nor "wrong."

Take you egalitarian perspective of who should have what-where and shove it. Just another reason that plumbers should not do solar... They don't understand the business, the customers, the performance characteristics, and the finer points of solar thermal energy.

 

[stillaround]

They have a jury on pesky little civil trails? Usually just a judge. The concept still works though.

No..small claims ...I was being illustrative...once you fail to do what you should..you have no credibility in a courtroom or argument....people can can not pay and have less impunity.

 

[Protech]

Ok, now I know just how serious this guy really is.

Based on your comments, I gather you are not a plumber then. BTW, I also passed my solar contractor exam with a 93. I am not just a plumber.

But I digress. Please, keep installing pool collectors at a 45 degree angle facing north because that happens to be the roof face that's easiest for you to stack panels on.

a) FSEC is an annoying impediment to the industry in many ways, and the "standards" are not necessarily what people *want* which is ultimately what counts (all that liberty we enjoy 'round here).

b) Who the hell are you to say what's "right" (and call me a dumbass, dumbass). If there are no optimal roof faces and a customer want's a collector on their NE roof, and the insist on it, and they sign a waiver acknowledging the performance (lack thereof), then it is entirely within their rights to have it, and entirely in my rights to give it to them. What you are advocating is some sort of fascist "nobody should drive a Ferrari" or more aptly "nobody should drive a Kia" mentality. You are everything that is wrong in the solar business. Suboptimal is not illegal, immoral, nor "wrong."

Take you egalitarian perspective of who should have what-where and shove it. Just another reason that plumbers should not do solar... They don't understand the business, the customers, the performance characteristics, and the finer points of solar thermal energy.

 

[stillaround]

Was that a solar flair? :blink:

 

[Tommy plumber]

Ok, now I know just how serious this guy really is.

Based on your comments, I gather you are not a plumber then. BTW, I also passed my solar contractor exam with a 93. I am not just a plumber.

But I digress. Please, keep installing pool collectors at a 45 degree angle facing north because that happens to be the roof face that's easiest for you to stack panels on.

Since solar work is part of the scope of a licensed plumber's work, why did you take a 'solar contractor' exam? My license allows me, per state statute, to install solar systems without needing any additional license. So what's up? Does the add'l. license give you more credibility?

 

[gitnerdun]

Since solar work is part of the scope of a licensed plumber's work, why did you take a 'solar contractor' exam? My license allows me, per state statute, to install solar systems without needing any additional license. So what's up? Does the add'l. license give you more credibility?

He may have been one of the "registered plumbers" that was grandfathered to a "certified plumber" about 12 years ago. Just guessing. I know several locally who are now certified without have to take the certified test. Not questioning ProTech's Knowledge in the field, just sayin'.

 

[Tommy plumber]

He may have been one of the "registered plumbers" that was grandfathered to a "certified plumber" about 12 years ago. Just guessing. I know several locally who are now certified without have to take the certified test. Not questioning ProTech's Knowledge in the field, just sayin'.

I've read about the law where the state may allow a person with the county master's license to get a state-wide license if that person met certain criteria.

 

[Protech]

Since solar work is part of the scope of a licensed plumber's work, why did you take a 'solar contractor' exam? My license allows me, per state statute, to install solar systems without needing any additional license. So what's up? Does the add'l. license give you more credibility?

I took the solar contractors exam so that I could Install photovoltaic systems. it also gives me a selling advantage w.hen bidding against somebody else. I can be a plumber and a solar contractor.