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I dont work with anything this involved, but my question is if I used one of those 3 or 4 inch fernco fittings on a line in
someones basement I would be worried about them sagging over time.....
I have seen them move and sag many times....


How come no hub clamps with full SS bands on them not used in this application????
Why would fernco fittings without full SS bands on them be passable and ok on work like you are doing???
are you putting some kind of leg or support under each one of them?

It all looks real good to me, I just did not think fernco fittings were kosher in commercial work
See post#18 this thread
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Those Fernco's are WRONG. They should not be there. Pvc/ci adapters and no hub couplings are correct. I bet you don't put a 10' head on those connections.

I was wondering about this fernco issue and if anyone else would chime in...

Not just the sagging issues but over time I have seen them loosen up
and need to be tightend down some more as they began to shrink and leak..

I have seen fernco fittings with the full SS band on them that would probably
have been a better choice
...

I am lucky we can use pvc here in our state....
if that all has to be no-hub cast work it would be way more expensive
.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Very nice work. I wish we could use pvc on commercial jobs in my state but I am ok with not being able to use ferncos. I completely understand that you’d probably prefer not to use them too but if that’s what the boss orders you don’t have a choice.
Now the question arises, does the lowly apprentice make a mention of this Fernco issue to his boss
and question the use of them?? Will he get in hot water for asking??
Or does the apprentice just let it slide and hope that the boss dont try to shift blame to him
on this fernco thing , if the inspectors catch this problem down the road..??.

So what do you do, what do you do>???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also on another note, are those wall mounted toilet carriers gonna hold up being
only 2x4 light construction steel in the walls to hold them??? I have seen them pull out of the
walls before?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I brought up the fernco’s on the first commercial job I was on. I agree they are not approved for above ground horizontal work. Clearly stated in the code book. With that being said, we’ve not had any inspectors here in the county have an issue or call them out in any way.

As far as fire caulking, all penetrations are to be fire caulked specifically to the effect to stop the spread of smoke. This is a three story mixed use space with a very in depth sprinkler system. I do not know much about building codes pertaining to fire proofing beyond us caulking the holes above and below the decking for smoke control. Sometimes we have to plenum wrap our pvc in plenum spaces or hang cast iron instead.

The single carriers are 3/8 power studded to the concrete in three places, and the back to back in four.
 

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I Like Tater Tots
Plumber since 1979. 42 years and still rollin'
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The walls should never take the load of a properly mounted carrier fixture. The carrier is bolted to the floor and the 3/4 rods should have nuts and washers between the wall and the fixture carrying the load.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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The walls should never take the load of a properly mounted carrier fixture. The carrier is bolted to the floor and the 3/4 rods should have nuts and washers between the wall and the fixture carrying the load.

I have seen a few of these come through the drywall before. with the steel studs in the walls......
all you need is some heavy heffer's
slamming their asses down on those toilets for a few months in the ladies room
and they will begin to sag
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Those Fernco's are WRONG. They should not be there. Pvc/ci adapters and no hub couplings are correct. I bet you don't put a 10' head on those connections.
Depending on whether or not the brand we supplied meets the c1461 standard, I reason that they are actually not specifically prohibited, but given the spirit of the rest of the sections regarding mechanical couplings I tend to agree with you none the less.

I can’t find what I was looking for specifying any above ground horizontal flexible couplings shall be shielded and properly supported on both sides within 18” or something to the effect.

Font Number Screenshot Document

Font Publication Material property Book Paper
Font Publication Book Paper Newsprint
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I’m still learning how to effective use and understand my code book but here is what I mentioned earlier about supports. This is an addendum in Allegheny county :
Font Material property Publication Paper Document

it’s confusing because I don’t see any standard mentioned for any unshielded coupling above ground, but here it shows a lean in that direction. Sorry for the barrage of responses but this is something that piqued my interest both at school and in the field in practice. Yet I could never get a definitive answer on the subject.

Our inspectors have never had a problem with the methods we use just to clarify, but I’m always looking to have the knowledge to do it right, do it better, and understanding some of the reasoning why as well.
 

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The short answer is that ferncos have no place in new construction. The money you save using a fernco over a husky band or no-hub is lost because you need to support both sides of a fernco so it doesn't sag, this almost always means at least one hanger.

Even in a vertical situation, where you're almost always using a fernco to transition from plastic to cast iron, ferncos aren't ideal because over time they squeeze out thinner and won't be making a good seal when rust accumulates. Almost every fernco I've taken off cast iron had rust flakes stuck in the joint.

Don't get me wrong, I use ferncos alot for drain cleaning, almost as often as I use a no-hub, but they're always supported by at least some loops of hanging strap. Hanging strap is a bit wanky for a brand new building. For the 100yr old houses I work in, a fernco and strap is usually going to outlast the rest of the plumbing and often the homeowner.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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And upon rereading the above specs both 1460 and 1461 call for shields, meaning that they are indeed wrong regardless of sag, support, or other stipulations.
Well, just dont be the guy to ask the inspectors about this issue...
that would not be beneficial.

Never, ever make the inspector look stupid.....by asking questions
he dont have the answer to---
it never goes well if you do this.....
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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The short answer is that ferncos have no place in new construction. The money you save using a fernco over a husky band or no-hub is lost because you need to support both sides of a fernco so it doesn't sag, this almost always means at least one hanger.

Even in a vertical situation, where you're almost always using a fernco to transition from plastic to cast iron, ferncos aren't ideal because over time they squeeze out thinner and won't be making a good seal when rust accumulates. Almost every fernco I've taken off cast iron had rust flakes stuck in the joint.

Don't get me wrong, I use ferncos alot for drain cleaning, almost as often as I use a no-hub, but they're always supported by at least some loops of hanging strap. Hanging strap is a bit wanky for a brand new building. For the 100yr old houses I work in, a fernco and strap is usually going to outlast the rest of the plumbing and often the homeowner.
I always like to throw a liberal amount of pro dope on the inside of every fernco fitting I have to install....
I also like to grease up the pipe real good too.... They DO get loose over time and I have had to tighten down a few

I know the pipe dope will lube up , fill the gaps and seal everything extra well,
and it will most likely last for the rest of my lifetime anyway....
 

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I always like to throw a liberal amount of pro dope on the inside of every fernco fitting I have to install....
I also like to grease up the pipe real good too.... They DO get loose over time and I have had to tighten down a few

I know the pipe dope will lube up , fill the gaps and seal everything extra well,
and it will most likely last for the rest of my lifetime anyway....
When we want a fernco to be more permanent we will prime the pipe and give it ~30 seconds to dry, then put the fernco on. It bonds just enough. When you need to remove it, make a slice longways using a razor, it will peel right off leaving almost nothing behind.

Doesn't work with no-hubs because they are made from Neoprene.
 
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philosopher and statesmen
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When we want a fernco to be more permanent we will prime the pipe and give it ~30 seconds to dry, then put the fernco on. It bonds just enough. When you need to remove it, make a slice longways using a razor, it will peel right off leaving almost nothing behind.

Doesn't work with no-hubs because they are made from Neoprene.
I have used PVC glue on them before and that basically makes it impossible to remove
those fernco clamps down the road.
..
 

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I’m still learning how to effective use and understand my code book but here is what I mentioned earlier about supports. This is an addendum in Allegheny county :
View attachment 132764
it’s confusing because I don’t see any standard mentioned for any unshielded coupling above ground, but here it shows a lean in that direction. Sorry for the barrage of responses but this is something that piqued my interest both at school and in the field in practice. Yet I could never get a definitive answer on the subject.

Our inspectors have never had a problem with the methods we use just to clarify, but I’m always looking to have the knowledge to do it right, do it better, and understanding some of the reasoning why as well.

This is my type of guy. Someone NOT offended by centuries of experience critiquing his work. Researching, actually researching the critiques and still asking questions. Excellent attitude.
 

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I Like Tater Tots
Plumber since 1979. 42 years and still rollin'
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When we want a fernco to be more permanent we will prime the pipe and give it ~30 seconds to dry, then put the fernco on. It bonds just enough. When you need to remove it, make a slice longways using a razor, it will peel right off leaving almost nothing behind.

Doesn't work with no-hubs because they are made from Neoprene.
Back in the 80’s I fabbed up some no hub carrier hospital groups at the shop. Both soil and water piping and then transported them to the job. We used a no hub sealant made by Gaco. It really solidified the joints for transport. That and some strategically placed unistrut temporary braces. They were about 20’ long made in two sections. I see there is a similar product out there from Black Swan.
 
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