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residential service
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who is selling them regularly?

How many?

What brand?

Customer feedback?

Are you selling them or are people already sold on them and just want you to help them decide make and model?

What scenario makes for the easiest sale?
 

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Ive not sold them to anyone. Sold one owner on a insta hot though. All he had in his office was 1 sink and was going to have me install a 60 gallon water heater, told him it was a waste of money. Installed it, he loves it.
 

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I don't sell them.

I install my share of them, I use Takagi, because that is the only brand readily available here. For the jobs we do they are speced for space more than for energy conservation.
 

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I find it to be the same thing over and over.

They ask, you explain the math, the convenience...they like what they hear.

You tell them the price, they decide to stay with a tank.

I've done quite a few, but more often they can't justify the price.

You have to add it up in terms of percentage of use.
If someone lives alone & spends $15 a month, it isn't worthwhile.
If it's a family of six with a jacuzzi...probably worthwhile.
 

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Plumbing Contractor
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Tankless

I have sold one it was a Ranni I believe it how you spell it.To lazy to look it up. I had to run 10' of 3/4 gas pipe and 20' of water pipe installed on out side wall. $2800.00 is what I charged. I had no clue what to charge the guy. Took me 4-6 hrs to do. They asked me to install one. I didn't make sale it was already in his head to do it.
 

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every tool is a hammer
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When I had my own shop, I sold and installed about 10 Noritz. Not one callback. I installed a Bosch for a friend that he got from Menard's, nothing but trouble. Finally yanked it and put a tank type back in. Noritz has pretty good installer support. The drawback in the Midwest is the fact that we have to install them inside, usually a basement, and run a lot of pipe to them. If I lived in a warm climate, I would have one mounted outside, in an exterior wall.
 

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Thats how we mount ours down here on a new bulid. The only one I push is the Rinnai. We have other brands such as Bosch and Takagi but Home Despair carries them and they arent as well equip with warrenty as the Rinnais are..
 

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When I had my own shop, I sold and installed about 10 Noritz. Not one callback. I installed a Bosch for a friend that he got from Menard's, nothing but trouble. Finally yanked it and put a tank type back in. Noritz has pretty good installer support. The drawback in the Midwest is the fact that we have to install them inside, usually a basement, and run a lot of pipe to them. If I lived in a warm climate, I would have one mounted outside, in an exterior wall.
They have the worst tankless's, bar none.
They also have incredibly bad customer service, I spent literal hours arguing on the phone with tech support regarding a defective flow engine, the guy SWORE to me that they NEVER fail.

It was common sense to me, I'd checked flow at every fixture & it wouldn't fire until it had a flow rate of about 1.5 GPM, ran up and down stairs looking around for potential cross connections that might contribute to a loss of flow, despite verifying there was more than adequate flow to induce start-up.

I spent two days going back and forth with them over it.

My customer finally got them to agree that it might be the flow engine, they sent HIM a new one after he spent two weeks calling them back to finally reach a guy willing to listen to what I diagnosed as the problem.

A slap in the face, my customer wound up having to replace the flow device himself.

SCREW Bosch...I wouldn't buy a thing from them after that experience, tech support was insultive and condescending and it wasn't just one guy, they kept repeating the same lines of denial to avoid paying for the replacement part on warranty, the units are garbage.

Anyone who is inquiring about a Bosch is usually too tight on price anyway because they are the cheapest units out there...they attract bargain hunters.
 

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I've installed about 10 Rinnai :thumbup: Best one out there !!

Only put them in so far on remodels ,,,were we add a level or a large bump out .

If they figured a way to cool the exhaust ,,, we could install as replacements in most homes !!

Otherwise ,,it's good old Bradford White tank types !!

Cal
 

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I've installed about 10 Rinnai :thumbup: Best one out there !!

Only put them in so far on remodels ,,,were we add a level or a large bump out .

If they figured a way to cool the exhaust ,,, we could install as replacements in most homes !!

Otherwise ,,it's good old Bradford White tank types !!

Cal
Don't look now...but there's a condensing tankless on the market.

It claims an efficiency of 98% if I recall, with a cost thats supposedly competitive to standard tankless's.
I'll try to find the name...sounds promising, but they always do.
 

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residential service
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I sold my 4th Saturday morning which is the reason for this thread. It was an easy sell which almost makes me think the guy had been thinking about them already except for the fact that when I first mentioned it the other day it was to his wife (he was not present) and she acted like she'd never heard of a tankless water heater. I left one of Noritz's brochures behind and when I went back Sat. am it was like signing someone up to vote or something. Just ABC ok I'll take that one with these options.

So far I have sold and installed 1 Rinnai (2 years ago), 1 Takagi (last year), and this is now my 2nd Noritz this year with the other one coming just about a month or so ago. They all seem to be good units but Rinnai, I've heard and don't know if it's true, are beginning to flirt with the box stores which means quality will probably go down, Takagi seems good but is not adequately stocked and ship times I'm told can be too long, Noritz seems to be top quality from what I've heard (but don't have enough of a history with to really know) but one really nice thing about them is that I can get stable pricing for 6 months at a time which means I can price a job on site without having to "get back to ya" which I think makes all the difference in the world. Also, Noritz's commitment to sell only to the contractor seems to be stronger than the others. Not sure yet whether it is in reality but it seems to be doctrine with them, or at least they go out of their way to make a big deal about it. I haven't done a google search to see how many online resellers are selling them though.

What I'd like to do is find or develop a very successful sales presentation because among seriously legitimate prospects my closing ratio is pretty pitiful. For the guy on Sat. it really didn't make any sense not to go tankless because he was looking at replacing 2 40 gal ng units that were on seperate hw dist systems (a straight shot of about 30' of 3/4" pex solves that problem) both of which were located in interior spaces of the house (unnecessary gas leak potential as well as possible CO emissions). One of them also was pre-sealed combustion chamber, was not on a stand or in a pan and would have eventually flooded his house. So with an exterior mounted 751 series he gets continuous hot water and eliminates several potential problems (some of them possibly deadly) for not much more than what it would cost him to install 2 replacement tanked units. I wish they all always made this much sense, but unfortunately they often seem to have to be sold more as a luxury than as a smart investment.

If anybody out there has got these sales wired and doesn't mind sharing with the class, I'd love to hear maybe some selling points that I haven't thought of (which probably won't be too hard to come up with).
 

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residential service
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Went to the site and it's a shell. Everything is "coming soon, under construction". I understand about itching to break into the market fast but If I can't find out anything about your product on your website, I won't be buying anything from you until I can.

Someone please explain exactly what a condensing tankless water heater is. What does condensing mean and why do I care? It still requires venting doesn't it? I'm all for great new products and maybe I will fall in love with their products but not without a whole lot more info.

GP where did you hear about them? Who sells them? Why are they more desirable than any other tankless?
 

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Went to the site and it's a shell. Everything is "coming soon, under construction". I understand about itching to break into the market fast but If I can't find out anything about your product on your website, I won't be buying anything from you until I can.

Someone please explain exactly what a condensing tankless water heater is. What does condensing mean and why do I care? It still requires venting doesn't it? I'm all for great new products and maybe I will fall in love with their products but not without a whole lot more info.

GP where did you hear about them? Who sells them? Why are they more desirable than any other tankless?
First, it isn't my site, you're not buying a thing from me.

I humorously hadn't clicked anything until after I posted it.

Condensing technology refers to the fact that so much of the heat is absorbed from the expelled exhaust that the moisture in it recondenses.
I've installed condensing boilers, also referred to as category IV gas fixtures.

They work at efficiencies of better than 90%, often in the 95-98% range.
 

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residential service
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First, it isn't my site, you're not buying a thing from me.

I humorously hadn't clicked anything until after I posted it.

Condensing technology refers to the fact that so much of the heat is absorbed from the expelled exhaust that the moisture in it recondenses.
I've installed condensing boilers, also referred to as category IV gas fixtures.

They work at efficiencies of better than 90%, often in the 95-98% range.
Yes, sorry, I did realize that and I didn't mean to suggest it was your product or your site.

So the main selling point for them is efficiency, correct? It definately will still require venting.
 

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Yes, sorry, I did realize that and I didn't mean to suggest it was your product or your site.

So the main selling point for them is efficiency, correct? It definately will still require venting.
Yes, but condensing technology expells a low enough heat to where you generally can use PVC or ABS.
 

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residential service
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yes, but condensing technology expells a low enough heat to where you generally can use PVC or ABS.
That definately makes a difference because that cat III ss vent is crazy expensive and the added cost if you have to go beyond a few feet has been a deal killer for me before. That's why generally I like to get an exterior install not too far from the gas meter. Then all I have to do is button up everything at the old location and get the water to it at the new location.
 

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We can't do exterior installs here...pipes freeze.

I've lost more than my share of jobs over the SS vent cost as well, sucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Maybe I'm starting to get a little better at this 'cause we just got a return call from a quote I gave about 2 weeks ago on a tankless package. I had written them off when they didn't call back within a few days. They called a little while ago and are ready to proceed! This means I will be installing my second of the year tomorrow and my third of the year on Wed. next week. These are coming in, after you add the extra pipe involved in relocating the unit, at roughly 4k each so far. I tell you what, as a one man shop I'd love to get to the place where I'm doing 4 - 6 of these per month and that's on top of all the other work I do. If I can get a steady stream of 4 - 6 per month I won't be a one man shop for very much longer. IF ...
 
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