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philosopher and statesmen
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thank you for coughing up a price

I charge a fee of 300.00 for a flush. The actual flush is 1 hour and the cost includes local travel, flushing fluids and the use of my pump and hoses.

I also suggest the customer purchase a flush kit from me for 400.00 and that price will include the first flush and I'll show them how to do it themselves if they would like to save a little when they do the next flush.

I've found that most don't want to do it themselves cuz afterall they have enough to do, like changing the batteries in their smoke detectors:no: NOT!

BTW...While the system is flushing, I provide a free service to check the condition of all their plumbing fixtures, faucets and valves. This usually generates another repair or replacement fee.:thumbsup:
Wow.....thank you....

300 bucks is more salty than even I had thought it would be.......
so you save about 80 bucks a year with a tankless, but you have to spend about 300 bucks to get it cleaned:blink::blink::blink:

then if they want to be taught how to do it themselves, you will gladly show them and also inspect their home for plumbing problems for free while it is de-scaleing..... will you do the dishes and sweep the carpet too???

except for endless hot water, could someone please explain to me exactly where the saveings is with this product???

I guess I am just too stupid to understand the math here......:laughing::laughing:




 

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Mark I will.........You have a heater that runs for 5 mins and uses 199000 btu's and you have another heater that takes several minutes to fire and only uses 38000 btu's...........that's where the savings are. Told you the numbers can be manipulated. :laughing::laughing:

Having already established through the previous posts that most buy not on conservation, I don't understand why everyone seems to be focusing on that aspect. Maybe someone can clue me in on that?

I am now curious as to just why they have an energy star rating and a tank heater does not. So based on what I do know I would like to see exactly what they do use compared to a tank type.

A pretty common heater is a NR 98. 199 k btu is the max output based on it's full rated load of 9.8 gpm @ 35 degree rise. It's minimum btu output is 12 k btu. It has a manifold with 3 independent solenoids that open based on the demand and which automatically adjusts the manifold output pressure of the gas based on the load. It comes on only when needed and has an 84% thermal rating (the new condensing models are 93%). Most tank heaters are 60-ish% thermal efficiency rating. One comes on only when needed and the other sporadically depending on location. Most garages get pretty cold though and will make it come on mire often than a heated location.

Somebody be a gentleman and oblige me with some good solid physics that will make the 38k btu tank more efficient than the tankless at 38k btu output in this scenario. Better yet, make it raise 9.8 gallons 35 degrees in one minute. ......
 

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:clap: by selectively choosing the highest price given on the thread to flush a tankless and combining it with the worst consumer report for savings you could find and applying it to all consumers habits to prove there are no savings you have almost convinced me to dissuade all potential buyers I come across. Great case. All I need is some good physical evidence and I'm done.
:whistling2:
Wow.....thank you....

300 bucks is more salty than even I had thought it would be.......
so you save about 80 bucks a year with a tankless, but you have to spend about 300 bucks to get it cleaned:blink::blink::blink:

then if they want to be taught how to do it themselves, you will gladly show them and also inspect their home for plumbing problems for free while it is de-scaleing..... will you do the dishes and sweep the carpet too???

except for endless hot water, could someone please explain to me exactly where the saveings is with this product???

I guess I am just too stupid to understand the math here......:laughing::laughing:




 

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philosopher and statesmen
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8,570 Posts
I hear crickets chirping

oh.....I forgot to ask....

I can change out all the parts.. EVERYTHING on a 7 year old Bradford white gas defender in about 30 minutes...
Usually charge the customer about $195..

whats the minimum you can charge just to figure out and DIAGNOSE what is wrong with a 7 year old tannkless???.

then on average.... what is the down time and how long does it normally take to get something like a gas solenoid valve for a TAKAGI??

anyone care to ballpark this??


crickets chirping.... silence......................................
.............................................................................:laughing:






been saying all this for 8 years http://weilhammerplumbing.com/houseofhorrors/
 

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oh.....I forgot to ask....

I can change out all the parts.. EVERYTHING on a 7 year old Bradford white gas defender in about 30 minutes...
Usually charge the customer about $195..

whats the minimum you can charge just to figure out and DIAGNOSE what is wrong with a 7 year old tannkless???.

then on average.... what is the down time and how long does it normally take to get something like a gas solenoid valve for a TAKAGI??

anyone care to ballpark this??


crickets chirping.... silence......................................
.............................................................................:laughing:






been saying all this for 8 years http://weilhammerplumbing.com/houseofhorrors/

Why anyone would want to change all parts on a 7 year old TANK heater is beyond me. But to each their own.

Noritz has onboard diagnostics. Just read the error code in about 5 minutes so the standard trip charge applies. Easy peezy. IF a part needs to be changed they are super simple. (I have stripped them down completely and put them back together in around a half hour as well.) Parts can be had next day for about the same as regular freight (if they are out of warranty) due to the light weight. I cant speak for Takagi as I have no experience with them. But I recently have had several Noritzs in a neighborhood that were LP units installed on a NG system. They ran for almost 4 years before anyone even noticed. Had to change out manifold (which includes the solenoids) to NG system and adjust the settings. Piece of cake after the the learning curve of the first one. Will be doing a 4th one this week. Installing plumber was not very clever.

PS: I dont do "ball park" pricing over the phone (or internet forums). I can diagnose your problem and give you an accurate price right down to the penny so you wont have to guess if you'd like? :thumbup:
 

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oh.....I forgot to ask....

I can change out all the parts.. EVERYTHING on a 7 year old Bradford white gas defender in about 30 minutes...
Usually charge the customer about $195..

whats the minimum you can charge just to figure out and DIAGNOSE what is wrong with a 7 year old tannkless???.

then on average.... what is the down time and how long does it normally take to get something like a gas solenoid valve for a TAKAGI??

anyone care to ballpark this??


crickets chirping.... silence......................................
.............................................................................:laughing:






been saying all this for 8 years http://weilhammerplumbing.com/houseofhorrors/

Ok, we get it, you don't like tankless. Here's an idea, don't put them in. What difference does it make what it costs, or what it takes to fix them. You don't have to put them in. Why keep at it so hard, if it is not going to change your mind?
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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8,570 Posts
Why anyone would want to change all parts on a 7 year old TANK heater is beyond me. But to each their own.



PS: I dont do "ball park" pricing over the phone (or internet forums). I can diagnose your problem and give you an accurate price right down to the penny so you wont have to guess if you'd like? :thumbup:

people have had me rebuild 15 year old heaters before
because they were selling the house or sold the house and did not want to shell out any extra money.....

if you have recently rebuilt a couple of Nortz
, you must have an invoice available with the final damages for the change outs.......

just wondering how ugly it got...

 

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Yes there are energy star rated tank types. But not traditional tank types. Cost to purchase one of those is probably the same or more than a tankless. I know power vents are comparably priced to a tankless at my suppliers.

Incorrect.

D-4-504S*FBN(SX) (atomspheric vent, with damper.)
 
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www.noblehvac.com
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589 Posts
Ok, I have a sceneraio for those who are oppposed to tankless.

I have a customer that is going to need a water heater any time now, due to the condition of the 40 gallon tank.

They are a younger married company with 5 kids. Their oldest is 8 years old.
With a family of seven what would you put in for them?
What do they have gas or electric or oil?
I have 5 kids. My wife and me. Wifes grandma, and wifes sister all under my roof. We have a 50 gallon electric works fine.
 
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