Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Today, I ran across a condo with stainless steel water lines with copper fitting. The homeowner would like to cut a section of the ss out and add a pex run off it. How would you join those joints? Brazing? Tinning flux?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
Today, I ran across a condo with stainless steel water lines with copper fitting. The homeowner would like to cut a section of the ss out and add a pex run off it. How would you join those joints? Brazing? Tinning flux?





If it were me I would post an intro first or you're not going to get a real answer. This site is for plumbing professionals only and you must first post an intro with enough detail for us to vet you as being a fellow plumber.


I really hope you do as this is something I would love to talk about.




I vote that if he doesn't post a proper intro in the next few days we move this to the lounge for further discussion.










.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
Also, if you do post a proper intro please post more pictures of these pipes.








.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MACPLUMB777

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I am uploading the few pics that I have. I will try to get back there tomorrow to see if it is 304 or 316 ss. You will see the drain and vent are also copper/ss. I have worked on old pipe; however, this is my first time to run across the SS. The condo is from the 70's, so it makes since they would have it.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
From what I can gather, it looks like a tin/silver combo (maybe 94/6) might do the trick. I don't mind brazing instead, if someone with stainless steel experience has a proven method and/or a solder/flux combo that works well.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,791 Posts
IRONGOOSE


You will need to fill in a lengthy introduction


Are you an employee, apprentice, journeyman, business owner?

Tell us if you had to go to trade school. How long?

How many hours or steps(1/2/3/4) before you become a journeyman?

What trade certificate do you have, plumbing, gas, oil, pipe fitter etc? How did you get them, exams, courses, or free in a cracker jack box?

What about your recent jobs, describe what you actually do and what type of building : houses, high rises, commercial building, institutional, oil refineries, paper mills etc.

Tell us about you, some funny plumbing jobs and or horror stories.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
From what I can gather, it looks like a tin/silver combo (maybe 94/6) might do the trick. I don't mind brazing instead, if someone with stainless steel experience has a proven method and/or a solder/flux combo that works well.



The drain pipe is called ti-krome. The "stainless" water pipe may actually be a rolled sheet material similar to bundy tubing used for car brake lines.


I have soldered the rolled sheet metal and can assure you it is difficult. Do not heat it too much, it will rust real quick and solder won't stick. This is true even if it is stainless. It will be more difficult than soldering those hangers for stub outs. holdrites? I don't recall, I don't do much newcon.

Yes, you are correct, back when ti-krome was the thing to do plumbers quickly figured out that you need a very high silver content to properly solder it. The added cost of using silver solder definitely was a factor in its' demise. The only reason they used stainless anyway was because it was a bit cheaper than copper for a short period. I have even seen ti-krome used for oil fill/vent piping.

I would definitely try propressing some of it. If that fails than just use sharkbites if it's smooth. If you use sharkbites than you should physically restrain them as the teeth might not bite in too well on hard stainless tubing. Definitely give them a good pull test too. I would do the adapting, sharkbite or propress, below the floor so it can be accessed from the basement/ceiling below. If it's slab on grade or a shallow crawl space than I recommend lots of access doors.



Might just be the best idea to repipe it in pex.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,600 Posts
The drain pipe is called ti-krome. The "stainless" water pipe may actually be a rolled sheet material similar to bundy tubing used for car brake lines.


I have soldered the rolled sheet metal and can assure you it is difficult. Do not heat it too much, it will rust real quick and solder won't stick. This is true even if it is stainless. It will be more difficult than soldering those hangers for stub outs. holdrites? I don't recall, I don't do much newcon.

Yes, you are correct, back when ti-krome was the thing to do plumbers quickly figured out that you need a very high silver content to properly solder it. The added cost of using silver solder definitely was a factor in its' demise. The only reason they used stainless anyway was because it was a bit cheaper than copper for a short period. I have even seen ti-krome used for oil fill/vent piping.

I would definitely try propressing some of it. If that fails than just use sharkbites if it's smooth. If you use sharkbites than you should physically restrain them as the teeth might not bite in too well on hard stainless tubing. Definitely give them a good pull test too. I would do the adapting, sharkbite or propress, below the floor so it can be accessed from the basement/ceiling below. If it's slab on grade or a shallow crawl space than I recommend lots of access doors.



Might just be the best idea to repipe it in pex.



I havent seen any of that SS pipe in my area for DWV, but during war time and when copper was in short supply, ( remember the steel pennies) they made steel pipe that looked the same silverish coating as SS, but for heating systems and the pipe appeared to be soldered, the problem is once the pipe rusted and the solder friendly coating rusted off, you had to braze any joints to make them hold.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,600 Posts
Today, I ran across a condo with stainless steel water lines with copper fitting. The homeowner would like to cut a section of the ss out and add a pex run off it. How would you join those joints? Brazing? Tinning flux?

take the easy way out and try and tap into a copper water pipe..otherwise see if the supply house has any special solder to use on that pipe...
do any of the pipes actually say " stainless steel" on them?

like this one..
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
they made steel pipe that looked the same silverish coating as SS, but for heating systems and the pipe appeared to be soldered, the problem is once the pipe rusted and the solder friendly coating rusted off, you had to braze any joints to make them hold.....



I think you're thinking of the rolled steel tube I mentioned. It is tin coated steel. They would roll it up and put it in an oven where the tin would melt and stick to everything. Once the tin layer on the outside rusts off the steel it's a pitd to solder. It's pretty much the same as hot dip galvanized steel but not zinc.



Stainless pipe doesn't have a coating, it's just stainless the whole way through.












.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,600 Posts
I think you're thinking of the rolled steel tube I mentioned. It is tin coated steel. They would roll it up and put it in an oven where the tin would melt and stick to everything. Once the tin layer on the outside rusts off the steel it's a pitd to solder. It's pretty much the same as hot dip galvanized steel but not zinc.



Stainless pipe doesn't have a coating, it's just stainless the whole way through.












.
I cant tell from his pictures if its SS or the pipe you stated, so thats why I asked and posted a pic of SS pipe for him to compare....
I know there are different grades of SS pipe and I tig weld SS pipe and pieces, but nothing else sticks to SS pipe( the pipe I weld on) so is this SS pipe thats made for plumbing have other metals added in that will stick to solder or braze???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
It looks like you are right, it is ti-krome stainless tp409.

So how are you connecting to it? Solder, propress, or sharkbite? I have never actually seen ti-krome water pipe, only the dwv. I kind of want to pay you to ship that to me!



I remember when the ridgid rep came to show us about the megapress and mentioned they were going to develop thin tube stainless for use with mega press fittings. Guess they are late to the party by about 50 years!!!! Seriously though, they already make stainless and monel seapress fittings. Why bother with megapress? Why not just make copper size stainless tube instead of megapress?








.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
https://www.kappalloy.com/kappzapp7-solid-1-16-x-1-lb-spool/


KappZapp7 Solid 1/16" x 1 lb spool

In stock

$89.50

SKU 141-06201

Super strength NSF certified 7% Silver solder for Copper, Brass and Stainless. Speaker industry standard for superior strength, conductivity, and vibration resistance. Slushy range (430°F - 570°F / 221°C - 299°C). - Solid .062" (1.6mm) diameter x 1 lb spool.




I think I am going to buy a roll of this stuff. It looks like it is great for electronics which I sometimes monkey with and need a new roll anyway and it is their best option for soldering to stainless with 7% silver, the max they offer.










.
 
  • Like
Reactions: breplum

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,023 Posts
Never heard or seen stainless in residential! For me I would not connect anything other than to the copper parst. What a nightmare if it were too leak causing water damage and trying to explain that to the insurance or worse going to court that even though it doesn't say on the package to use so and so fitting you did it anyway.

Pass or re-pipe to today's standards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Luckily it is a vacant kitchen remodel and the drywaller will be there tomorrow. I went ahead and got all the new sections roughed and grabbed some of the scrap SS. I have a week to test a few of the recommended solder/brazing ideas. I tried every combination of different fluxes, solders, and brazing rods that I had and nothing sticks! However, I have to admit, I was a little blown away how perfect the inside of the 50 year old SS looked. It felt like I was looking down the inside of a chrome barrel shot gun. I will post the final solution when get it done and will upload a few pics. Thanks for all your input! Definally a new one for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
Luckily it is a vacant kitchen remodel and the drywaller will be there tomorrow. I went ahead and got all the new sections roughed and grabbed some of the scrap SS. I have a week to test a few of the recommended solder/brazing ideas. I tried every combination of different fluxes, solders, and brazing rods that I had and nothing sticks! However, I have to admit, I was a little blown away how perfect the inside of the 50 year old SS looked. It felt like I was looking down the inside of a chrome barrel shot gun. I will post the final solution when get it done and will upload a few pics. Thanks for all your input! Definally a new one for me.





With all the time you're spending fiddle farting around you could prolly just repipe the kitchen in pex.




Why not just propress? Go rent a press tool from the hardware store or see if your supply house will loan you one.












.
 
  • Like
Reactions: breplum
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top