Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Master Plumber
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
And this caught my eye...



Some poor shmuck brought his crap in and wanted to see if it fit into this fitting. Then he couldn't get it back out. Hee hee!

Upon loser inspection I saw the soldered (???) end. Check it out...



Ha! That literally fell apart on the guy. So instead of hiring a professional, he goes to Blowes (aka Lowes) to buy more stuff to cobble together. And then he loses his piece to boot.

Hee hee!

Anyways, I bought 4 Sloan flush valves for $10.00 each there.

(Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics.)
 

·
Master Plumber
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What kind of quick lock design is that?
Not sure. Copper body. Permanent. (Can't remove it like a Shark-Bite.) Sold in bulk only. They don't sell many according to my source. I will watch and someday they will go on clearance for pennies on the dollar and I will buy them and sell them to some poor shmuck on eBay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Looks like swedge lock, at least thats what its called down here. Probly about as good as this......

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,808 Posts
There called q-tite fitting. I don't use them myself, just did a research on them.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,122 Posts
The best part of the post was the $10.00 SLOAN valves. How did that happen?
Too many HO's returning (full of solder) them and complaining they won't fit there briggs toilets.
 

·
www.DunbarPlumbing.com
Joined
·
5,478 Posts
Never saw those q-tite fittings before but I certainly wouldn't use those......look at how shallow the sockets are. :eek:


More and more.......the trade is by far losing its shirt with such easy designs to work with plumbing.


You heard it here first but drain fittings are soon to follow. I can't see how it couldn't.

For one, it doesn't take on a huge amount of pressure, just gravity flow.
 

·
Master Plumber
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Never saw those q-tite fittings before but I certainly wouldn't use those......look at how shallow the sockets are. :eek:


More and more.......the trade is by far losing its shirt with such easy designs to work with plumbing.


You heard it here first but drain fittings are soon to follow. I can't see how it couldn't.

For one, it doesn't take on a huge amount of pressure, just gravity flow.
I am under the impression that such fittings are commonly used in Europe.

By the professionals.

I really, really think the trade is making a mistake by complaining that this or that makes the job easier for a DIYer or a hack.

Besides all the flaws with that kind of thinking, by focusing on the protectionism aspect we miss the bigger picture.

Look, soldering intimidates people. But all they have to do is educate themselves and almost anyone can make a solid solder joint. I have taught preteen boys how to make them and they picked it right up.

Know how to make a pipe joint is not what makes us valuable. It's the ability to look at the big picture and determine how all the details should come together.

Seriously guys, how much of the code book is devoted to pipe joints? Come on! We spend a LOT of energy *****ing about this one thing and it is only a tiny fraction of the code. Whoop-de-do! It's knowing the entire code and how to apply it that makes us valuable. But instead of recognizing that we would rather ***** that any old shmuck can now join copper or PEX together.

The ability to join a pipe with a Sharkbite does not make you a plumber. It is meaningless. Neither does the ability to solder a joint. Any shmuck can learn how to make a nice solder joint. So what? That doesn't make him a plumber. But we go on and on about how a Sharkbite threatens the trades.

Well guess what? The guy buying a Sharkbite wasn't gonna call you to begin with. Besides, he is gonna screw it up just like he would have screwed anything else up.

We truly are our own worst enemies. And I am referring specifically to focusing on such an easily refutable issue (Sharkbites/PEX/PVC/Whatever killing the trade.) while failing to recognize and communicate the value we actually bring to the table.

Don't get me wrong, craftsmanlike joints are part of every professional plumber's value. You have seen some of my work. You know I am not defending crappy work or lessening the value of craftsmanlike work. Don't even go there.

But until we get off our "Sharkbites are gonna hurt us because anyone can use them." hobbyhorses and learn to understand and communicate our true value better, we will continue the slide into being a commodity. And when that happens some of you will be pointing back at Sharkbites as the reason Joe Blow thinks plumbers bring no value to the table.
 

·
Certified Lunatic
Joined
·
20,658 Posts
I am under the impression that such fittings are commonly used in Europe.

By the professionals.

I really, really think the trade is making a mistake by complaining that this or that makes the job easier for a DIYer or a hack.

Besides all the flaws with that kind of thinking, by focusing on the protectionism aspect we miss the bigger picture.

Look, soldering intimidates people. But all they have to do is educate themselves and almost anyone can make a solid solder joint. I have taught preteen boys how to make them and they picked it right up.

Know how to make a pipe joint is not what makes us valuable. It's the ability to look at the big picture and determine how all the details should come together.

Seriously guys, how much of the code book is devoted to pipe joints? Come on! We spend a LOT of energy *****ing about this one thing and it is only a tiny fraction of the code. Whoop-de-do! It's knowing the entire code and how to apply it that makes us valuable. But instead of recognizing that we would rather ***** that any old shmuck can now join copper or PEX together.

The ability to join a pipe with a Sharkbite does not make you a plumber. It is meaningless. Neither does the ability to solder a joint. Any shmuck can learn how to make a nice solder joint. So what? That doesn't make him a plumber. But we go on and on about how a Sharkbite threatens the trades.

Well guess what? The guy buying a Sharkbite wasn't gonna call you to begin with. Besides, he is gonna screw it up just like he would have screwed anything else up.

We truly are our own worst enemies. And I am referring specifically to focusing on such an easily refutable issue (Sharkbites/PEX/PVC/Whatever killing the trade.) while failing to recognize and communicate the value we actually bring to the table.

Don't get me wrong, craftsmanlike joints are part of every professional plumber's value. You have seen some of my work. You know I am not defending crappy work or lessening the value of craftsmanlike work. Don't even go there.

But until we get off our "Sharkbites are gonna hurt us because anyone can use them." hobbyhorses and learn to understand and communicate our true value better, we will continue the slide into being a commodity. And when that happens some of you will be pointing back at Sharkbites as the reason Joe Blow thinks plumbers bring no value to the table.
Bravo!
You said it all!
The attitude we have is what is killing the trade.
I consider Sharkbites to be just another tool in the box...

When late in the afternoon or, early evening faced with a sweat job in a condo that has a leaking shut off for the unit that won't close completely out comes the sharkbite on a valve, Change it on the fly and the job is done...

A large house or apartment with a never ending drainback...
You've done everything you can to divert and used a jet sweat for everything you can. Now that last connection and the damn water is killing you... It's sharkbite time so you can get to Miller Time!

Face it! The DIYers aren't going to disappear! I blame it on This Old House!
They let the cat out of the bag initially and it's not going back.

There are DIYers out there that are very knowlegable and do decent work on their projects. There are also some that don't know their limitations. A lot of my work especially on Saturdays is rescuing them. I love it! They have given their best shot and have given up! It's like fishing in a barrel! The water is off and they can't turn it on until that tub/shower valve is installed. Yee Haaaa! It's showtime!

I also have done many jobs where a knowledgable DIYer knew their limitations and wanted a part of a job done. No problem here! Usually things are opened up and the work area is clean and ready for me to do my thing.

Many times in fact I was called out in the initial planning stages of the job to consult and was paid for it. During that consult I looked at what needed to be done and discussed what he was doing and what I was doing as well as what needed to be done before during and after my work. The home owner then called me ahead of time to schedule the work and had everything done that needed to be done, I did the work and it was a very pleasant experience.

I imagine there was similar debate when that new fangled vitrified clay, cast iron and galvanized pipe replaced wood pipe too! After all it took a true craftsman to whittle and bore out a log to make a pipe... Any monkey could run that newfangled stuff.

As always you need to carefully spell out on the invoice what work you did to limit your responsibility to your own work!
 

·
www.DunbarPlumbing.com
Joined
·
5,478 Posts
I am under the impression that such fittings are commonly used in Europe.

By the professionals.

I really, really think the trade is making a mistake by complaining that this or that makes the job easier for a DIYer or a hack.

Besides all the flaws with that kind of thinking, by focusing on the protectionism aspect we miss the bigger picture.

Look, soldering intimidates people. But all they have to do is educate themselves and almost anyone can make a solid solder joint. I have taught preteen boys how to make them and they picked it right up.

Know how to make a pipe joint is not what makes us valuable. It's the ability to look at the big picture and determine how all the details should come together.

Seriously guys, how much of the code book is devoted to pipe joints? Come on! We spend a LOT of energy *****ing about this one thing and it is only a tiny fraction of the code. Whoop-de-do! It's knowing the entire code and how to apply it that makes us valuable. But instead of recognizing that we would rather ***** that any old shmuck can now join copper or PEX together.

The ability to join a pipe with a Sharkbite does not make you a plumber. It is meaningless. Neither does the ability to solder a joint. Any shmuck can learn how to make a nice solder joint. So what? That doesn't make him a plumber. But we go on and on about how a Sharkbite threatens the trades.

Well guess what? The guy buying a Sharkbite wasn't gonna call you to begin with. Besides, he is gonna screw it up just like he would have screwed anything else up.

We truly are our own worst enemies. And I am referring specifically to focusing on such an easily refutable issue (Sharkbites/PEX/PVC/Whatever killing the trade.) while failing to recognize and communicate the value we actually bring to the table.

Don't get me wrong, craftsmanlike joints are part of every professional plumber's value. You have seen some of my work. You know I am not defending crappy work or lessening the value of craftsmanlike work. Don't even go there.

But until we get off our "Sharkbites are gonna hurt us because anyone can use them." hobbyhorses and learn to understand and communicate our true value better, we will continue the slide into being a commodity. And when that happens some of you will be pointing back at Sharkbites as the reason Joe Blow thinks plumbers bring no value to the table.


I've been hanging around NHMaster3015...:yes:
 

·
Master Plumber
Joined
·
1,069 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
BTW, don't take my rant as a blankety endorsement of Sharkbites or anything else. I was talking about something far bigger than a stupid fitting.
 

·
Certified Lunatic
Joined
·
20,658 Posts
Me too!!!

I cringe at the thought of an idiot walking into big box buying a roll of 1/2" Zurn PEX and $400 worth of Sharbites or Gatorbites and it going to go home and repipe his house.

But face it! This idiot is not the customer you wanted anyhow! All he was going to do is waste your time and pull your chain...

For him the reality will hit after he realizes the job was hopelessly botched or the home is up for sale and the mess has to be cleaned up for the sale or, by the new owner.

There is no way we can go back as I said the cat is out of the bag!
Blame it on Bob n Norm!

All we can do is wade through the crap one job at a time!

God,
Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardship as the pathway to peace.

Taking, as He did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it.
Trusting that He will make all things right if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life,
and supremely happy with Him forever in the next.

Amen.
 

·
www.DunbarPlumbing.com
Joined
·
5,478 Posts
Ahhh its a topic that's been circling the wagons on many forums lately about DIY'rs and the plumbing profession and where it's going.


I just landed a PowerVent replacement before lunch so my profession is secure at least till 1pm tomorrow! :thumbup:



I tell everybody I'm installing my last water heater this year about 5 months ago and now I've got an addiction to installing them! They are addicting when the customer has the heater right next to the old one and no steps! Woooooooo-hoooooooooooooooo!!! :thumbup:
 

·
Certified Lunatic
Joined
·
20,658 Posts
Ahhh its a topic that's been circling the wagons on many forums lately about DIY'rs and the plumbing profession and where it's going.


I just landed a PowerVent replacement before lunch so my profession is secure at least till 1pm tomorrow! :thumbup:



I tell everybody I'm installing my last water heater this year about 5 months ago and now I've got an addiction to installing them! They are addicting when the customer has the heater right next to the old one and no steps! Woooooooo-hoooooooooooooooo!!! :thumbup:
The only thing better than that would be if the customer already drained it, and, that as soon as you had it disconnected rolled it outside into a roll off that he had in the yard!:thumbup:

Sometimes you have to pinch yourself to stop dreaming though...
I had it happen once!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,589 Posts
BTW, don't take my rant as a blankety endorsement of Sharkbites or anything else. I was talking about something far bigger than a stupid fitting.
I didn't.
For that matter, it made sense.
I am NOT about to endorse sharkbites, or any "solderless" copper crap, but you did make a good point...there's a whole boat-load more to plumbing than simple joint connection.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top