[ROCKSTARPLUMBER]

Does anyone know a link to where good rinnai information is. RSP got invited to bid on changing out a 100gl boiler at a local resturant here in tally, and i wann pitch two rinnai s in series, but this is something that RSP have never done. I know that there is one controller for both rinnai s.
So lets here it, I know its coming!!:yes:

 

[user4]

Get you local Rinnai rep involved, it's part of their job, I have done a few restaraunts with multiple tankless units, using Takagi instead of Rinnai, and always had the rep help spec the units and the controls, it makes a big difference if a warranty issue comes up after the installation is done.

 

[ROCKSTARPLUMBER]

Yea, that was my plan, just wanted some homework to be prepared for it. Found the suppliers card in my rinnai folder. Ill be calling him tomorrow. Im sure he will love to come to this reasturant. I would say which national chain it is, but will wait till i have a signed contract. The scenery is going to be awesome!

 

[A Good Plumber]

I agree with Killer. I did a job to replace a 80 gallon water heater at a Fire Station. I contacted the tech dept at Rinnai and they designed the system.
As Killer said, your responsibility for future problems with the operation will be reduced If the design is from Rinnai.

They are happy to help.

 

[Tankless]

I also agree with Killer. Complex systems need a lot of attention to detail to ensure proper performance and longevity. Get the manuals and start reading pal. I have been involved on a bunch of complex jobs and there is a bit of experience that WILL prove to be helpful to be accurate and making the bid competitive. Restaurants can be really hard on systems....recirc is running 24/7 - hi flow rates need to be had....proper temps to the dishwashers. I recommend isolating the DW on it's own tankless system(s) for a few reasons, but mainly I don't like the idea of over heating to temper back down for the lavs - kitchen sinks - ...etc...Tempering valves can fail and it is really inefficient on the units and at those higher temps there is a lot more wear and tear at the higher temps....read the performance / energy consumption up at 170 degrees...makes no sense, but designers who don't completely understand still design it like a tanked system. Expect the warranty to be a lot shorter on these commercial units, sell them a service contract on the system too. As you know no hot water = customers eat for free and need to leave. I consulted on a job where the restaurant went 5 days without hot water and they got fined 10 grand from the health dept. Service contract.

 

[TheMaster]

I hoot ya. You need to go get all the gpm and temp of the dishwasher's potable water. Its all about demand. Also the units cannot run continuosly for over an hour or they will shut down and flash the service code. If your not mounting them outside or on an outside wall....better figure in all that expensive stainless pipe. They run about 180,000 btu's of gas when at full bore so the gas line will probably need to be upgraded and possibly the gas meter itself so consult the gas company too.. The manuals all list the techincal data based on PROPANE FUEL for its GPM delivery. We always use natural gas here,so we hafta account for that difference in performance. Usually they use a small heater for the bathrooms around here and no tempering valve. The dishwashers around here are usually chemical based and require 160 degree water.

 

[Tankless]

Also the units cannot run continuosly for over an hour or they will shut down and flash the service code.quote]


Ummm, pssst here's a secret.....if you install them the way the manufacturer wants it, they run just fine. Only when you install them poorly will they error out like that.

RSP, if it was me, Noritz hands down...Rinnai is a not too distant second.

You should look into the condensing units.....much more efficient, PVC venting and good flow rates.

 

[TheMaster]

Also the units cannot run continuosly for over an hour or they will shut down and flash the service code.quote]


Ummm, pssst here's a secret.....if you install them the way the manufacturer wants it, they run just fine. Only when you install them poorly will they error out like that.

RSP, if it was me, Noritz hands down...Rinnai is a not too distant second.

You should look into the condensing units.....much more efficient, PVC venting and good flow rates.

UMMMM PSSST Hey the factory says if they are undersized then hey PSSSTTT they will error. Most things work if installed like the manufacturer wants. Whats your point? Noritz by the way put out a dvd on their tankless water heaters and then contradicted that information in emails to me and I called them out on it. They finally admited the video was wrong. it ws about installing the drip tee fitting in the vent line. They could make up there mind if it was needed in my install or not. The vent pipe was about 6' long total out the roof. The rep couldn't get the tee for two weeks. The rep gave the homeowner the video so now the homeowners asking questions about the condensate tee and if it needs to be installed. MY point is the FACTORY cannot even keep up with its own information and dont under size the heaters

 

[Tankless]

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. Based on what you stated I know real world experience is limited....after you have done over 300 of these things come talk to me. And yes the tee needs to be installed, part # DTV4, retails for around 30 bucks, available at any supply house that's worth their weight.

Ya know what, just for Shyits and giggles, can you tell me the error code a unit will flash if it is undersized please?

 

[TheMaster]

I am not going to get into a pissing match with you. Based on what you stated I know real world experience is limited....after you have done over 300 of these things come talk to me. And yes the tee needs to be installed, part # DTV4, retails for around 30 bucks, available at any supply house that's worth their weight.

Ya know what, just for Shyits and giggles, can you tell me the error code a unit will flash if it is undersized please?

There is not error code for an undersized tankless only a code if it runs too long and I have better things to do than memorize codes i can google from my blackberry:whistling2:...I do not need to recite error codes.Tell Noritz it needs the condensate tee.....The video said it does.....tech support said if its 6' or under on the vertical in a warm climate its not needed. Like I said they cant make their mind up. Those pocket protector clowns at Noritz tech support made idiots of themselves and the rep. and they couldn't supply the product so they decided it wasn't needed. Typical RUSH TO MARKET PRODUCT.:laughing::yes: Like I said i called them out on the video because the rep was talkin smack and the tech support guys agreed the DVD was wrong! Some nerd telling you about the vent system....watch the video dont take my word for it. Those jerks didn't make the vertical condensate tee yet...only the horizontal one and they said it was not needed. Then they came out with the vertical tee. Buncha jerks! And if anybody from Noritz would like to talk about it......please feel free to speak up.

 

[Tankless]

Also the units cannot run continuosly for over an hour or they will shut down and flash the service code.

Dude, you're not even close to knowledgable. Take a back seat, the grown ups are talking. I have no interest in educating you or telling you the actual facts. I love the subpar plumbers out there that need tech support and a DVD in order to install a tankless heater. :no:

Hear's a little piece of advice, talk less listen more.

A properly installed Noritz heater will operate for a period of 24 consecutive hours. After that, they will simply stop firing. They will then close the bypas valve for unrestricted flow of cold water. This product change came about early 2008 in the second revision of the 7 series units. There will be no error code displayed.

If you were actually qualified to install these things, you would still not know that. However if you were qualified to install these things, you would have a little tech's book that would have very clearly addressed all that we spoke of. You would also have all the error codes and how to do basic troublshooting. You would have also had a sheet on drip tees. They have been available for 4 years but more available as of 3 years ago. AND they are not the only one who makes them...verticle and horizantal. Like I said after your 300th, come talk to me. Good day...Master:laughing:

In the words of Andrew Dice Clay: "If you don't know the right answer, don't say anything at all".

 

[TheMaster]

:blink:Noritz's video showed the heater installed and you would use and 18" piece off the heater and then a 90.....the condensate tee in the horizontal and then another 90 to turn up and penetrate the roof. I was replaceng a low boy electric in an attic with the tankless. I didn't have enough room to make the offset and the warranty stated that it must be installed and so did the video. I told the homeowner the heater cannot be installed and maintain the warranty. He got pissed and called the rep that help sell him the product and the rep went to the house. We all called Noritz and talked to tech support and they said "If the vent is shorter than 6' vertical in a warm climate then it doesn't need the condensate tee" About two months go by and the same situation comes up again........i call the rep and he says that a new tee is available but its not in the cateloge yet......guess what......it was the vertical condensate tee. All of this happened about 3 years ago. call Noritz and ask them if they brought both of the condensate tees to market at the same time. THE CORRECT ANSWER IS NO THEY DID NOT" But knowing Noritz goodlluck getting an answer.....OR THE SAME ANSWER TWICE!!!!!:blink:

 

[TheMaster]

Bottom line is they F'd up and the rep and Noritz would have said anyhting to this homeowner to get him to keep the heater. With Noritz if you dont wipe its ass after you install it....they will not warranty it......and i'm damn sure not going to warranty there product for them. Books are useless when they re-write the damn rules every few months. .........HERE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS "This product change came about early 2008 in the second revision of the 7 series units." THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING MICROSOFT WOULD SAY AT A FREAKIN PRESS CONFERENCE..... EVER SINCE THE DAMN THINGS HAVE BEEN MADE ALL I HEAR IS TANKLESS THIS AND HOW GREAT TANKLESS HEATERS ARE.......IF THEY ARE SO GREAT THEN WHY ALL THE CONSTANT CHANGE??? THEY RUSH THE PRODUCT TO MARKET AND CANNOT KEEP UP WITH THEIR OWN REVISIONS. OH and grown ups dont say "DUDE" ok. So if your "A grown up" talk like one. You come off as a guy driving a honda civic with 20" rims holding his damn pants up. You need to stick with electrical because you haven't been around plumbing long enough to no jack **** about what works and for how long. profile said it all "master tankless installer" WTF is that??? 300 installs makes you master and a "all knower" about everything Noritz has made? bullshit and everybody knows it. 99% of those dumbass's at noritz do not even know everything they have printed or what tech support has said. call Noritz an ask if they when they made the vertical and the horizontal condensate tee's......it will be different dates!

 

[TheMaster]

Go to Noritz's website and download the installation manual and refer to page 12 about the vent pipe. It only shows the horizontal condensate tee......where would you use your vertical condensate tee???? Noritz shows you cant go vertical over 36" before you must go horizontal with the HORIZONTAL condensate tee. So where would you use the vertical??? I atleast tell you why the vent manual doesn't show it since we are having class.....BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T EVEN MAKE A VERTICAL CONDENSATE TEE WHEN THE MANUAL WAS WRITTEN!!!!! Your not so smart guy...at all................OH by the way...Now noritz is offering MONTHLY update classes to keep you up to date!!! FFFFFFFF that......you dont make enough money in the crap!!!!! Its not worth my time!!!!! I'll make 100 an hour without them and not take a f'in class every month so i can keep up with a product they are designing as they go!!!!

 

[Tankless]

Your a strange dude and you have some serious issues. If you do need to crazy, which it sounds like you do, just take yourself and leave the rest of the world alone. I don't understand your bitterness and hatred, but I want nothing to do with you. Hopefully you can get some help and choose to pick your battles a little more wisely. later

 

[TheMaster]

Bitterness and hatred come from sitting on the phone with Noritz trying to fumble through their own paperwork for a B.S, answer. Kinda like yours. I challenge anyone to call Noriitz and ask my questions above and see what kind of answers you get......3 calls will get you 3 different answers.

 

[Tankless]

That's fine. But that was 3 years ago. Don't you have better things to worry about?

 

[ROCKSTARPLUMBER]

Not to interrupt you guys, but to get back to the OP, our local rinnai rep is no more. Had to call a company called Sunbelt, in GA, they gave me a number to a lady, then the lady gave me the number back to Sunbelt. Aint life freakin hilarious.

 

[TheMaster]

Not to interrupt you guys, but to get back to the OP, our local rinnai rep is no more. Had to call a company called Sunbelt, in GA, they gave me a number to a lady, then the lady gave me the number back to Sunbelt. Aint life freakin hilarious.

I see your on your way to bitterness and hatred. I wasn't kidding I have received terrible tech service and rep service.......All they need over at is a freakin tent and they would have a full blown circus over there. All those companies are the same.

 

[TheMaster]

yes i do Tankless, lets be friends and cut this crap out.:thumbup: