[Ron]

pex plumbing and dezincification?

Enlighten me on what he is talking about.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

Brass fittings, Zurn is in the midst of a class action over defective pex fittings.
Brass consists of copper & zinc.
Dezincification is when the Zinc is drawn from brass through galvanic action..I think it's from low grade brass.

 

[ILPlumber]

Yup Grumpy that's correct.

Here's what I found:

The zinc "leaches" out of the fitting in the form of a merangue once the water is introduced in the system (dezincification). This chloride-rich merangue then gets on the stainless steel ring and after a period of time eats through the ring. This process is called chloride induced stress corrosion cracking.

Coupled with the issue, each of the materials used in this system expand and contract at different rates once hot water flows through the connection. The pex piping and the brass fitting expand and contract much more than the stainless steel ring primarily because the stainles steel ring has a higher tensile strength. So what you have is the internal materials of the connection (pex pipe and brass fitting) trying to expand once heat is introduced and the stainless steel ring trying to "stay put". Well with the chloride merangue eating at the ring and the expansion of the brass and pex pipe "pushing" on the ring, a failure occurs.

The last reason for the failure is that the stainless steel rings do not seal aroung the brass fitting entirely. The rings used leave a minute/microscopic "gap" where the head of the ring is sealed. That void in the seal allows for water to travel through the connection and after a period of time a "channel/grove" is created in the barbs of the brass fitting to the extent that it becomes a leak.

 

[Ron]

And this zinc being drawn out of the brass, is this the cause of there failures. I thought the suit was finished, past the deadline to file.

 

[Ron]

Thanks for the class, send me the bill.:laughing:

 

[user4]

And this zinc being drawn out of the brass, is this the cause of there failures. I thought the suit was finished, past the deadline to file.

Not even close, they are seeking cases out across the country, and looking for ways to add other manufacturer's through similar failures. This is gonna get a lot bigger before it goes away, and bad press might force PEX out of the market much like PB was because of Qest.

 

[Ron]

I don't think pex is going anywhere too soon, maybe the way it's put together will change, but I don't think it will die.

 

[user4]

I don't think pex is going anywhere too soon, maybe the way it's put together will change, but I don't think it will die.

Time will tell, I know of at least five law firms locally that are seeking cases over a three state area, if the numbers get large enough and the product gets enough bad press the buying public will grow fearful of having it in their homes and the product dies a quick death.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

Not even close, they are seeking cases out across the country, and looking for ways to add other manufacturer's through similar failures. This is gonna get a lot bigger before it goes away, and bad press might force PEX out of the market much like PB was because of Qest.

I agree, as long as you've known me I been saying just that (using PB as an example).

I actually got sick of hearing myself say it.

Next in order of business, Sharkbites and Propress.

 

[uaplumber]

Holy crap! you mean we are going back to copper? Cool! I have yet to do a home in nothing but copper. Sure love the chance. And to re-pipe all those pex jobs? SHOW ME THE MONEY!. Truth be told, it would break my heart to find out pex has issues that big, after convincing so many people that pex was the way to go.

 

[Ron]

Pex is the way to go, I'm not convinced it's all bad, have yet to find any problems with it here so far.

 

[Bill]

Pex is the way to go, I'm not convinced it's all bad, have yet to find any problems with it here so far.

I installed pex about 8 years ago on ciyu and private wells and so far there has been no reported problems. Noq Quest I have replaced a lot of.

 

[para1]

Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick

*********************************************

 

[Wiser]

We are doing three PB repipes this week - replacing with PEX. All of these homes are over 15 years old - ticking time bomb.

Last week we were called in the middle of the night for a busted pipe behind the wall. To make a long story short HO couldn't turn water offer to home because main shut-off did not pick up this bathroom. Don't ask, SC. A PEX fitting behind the wall had let go. The crimp ring was not on correctly.

With PEX, there is a lot of room for error. Especially when you have so many illegals in new construction.

 

[ksensen]

Frankly at times I get tired of the CU vs. pex debate. I would love to pipe everything in copper, however convincing HO's to pay for it just isn't happening. In addition let's face it any piping system will eventually fail, nothing lasts forever. In my experience I have ripped out far more leaking copper piping and have far more emergency calls for leaking copper than anything else. Granted the majority of my work is in rural/suburban setting where most of my customers are on private wells and have acidic water. Will pex leak- sure if inferior fittings are used or installed incorrectly. But then again anything will leak if inferior fittings are used or its installed incorrectly. One other advantage to pex ( at least in my area where anyone and I mean anyone can do plumbing) is far fewer HO's have the tools to deal with pex and are more likely to call a plumber than to try to fix it themselves.-- However, all that said having been through the whole Qest debacle I am more than interested in watching the Zurn case unfold!

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I agree Ksensen, local codes allow new products that are cheaper...likely over pressure from MFG's and the general public.

We are then forced to bid with those products or go hungry.

You should introduce yourself...tell us a little about yourself in the introductions forum, welcome aboard.