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there have been posts here showing half a dozen propress tees in a row with 1 in the middle leaking, but not enough pipe between to cut just 1 tee out and replace, so quite a few hundreds of $$$ fittings later , where a soldered t could be taken out and cleaned and put back in...I cant count the amount of times I had to spin a fitting to change angle..I dont think you can do that with pro press..so more waste material..Im sure it has its place..but not with me at this time..ill stick with pex and solder joints..
That's understandable, but could also be attributed to poor planning on whomever installed the tees so close to each other to begin with. The fittings are tighter because they are slightly bigger so sometimes tight spots you have to be weary about that. Theres old neighborhoods in my area with slabs and copper homeruns manifold but it's all soldered fittings butt up against each other, tight spot not a place I'd want to solder and with how tight it is to the floor nothing gets un-soldered. Better off cutting the whole manifold out and starting fresh to give a little space.

I've done many roughs in tight places with press and I couldnt even tell you the last time I had a leak, knock on wood. I always plan ahead because I'm service minded.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
........I've done many roughs in tight places with press and I couldnt even tell you the last time I had a leak, knock on wood. I always plan ahead because I'm service minded.
I didn't even get a permanent propress on my van until 6 months ago, didn't make sense. They'd send me to do all the repairs in tight quarters that some install guy made a parts lists for but would make some comment about it not being possible without them burning the place down or how I am good at it so they should send me. Most of the time the office wouldn't bother having me grab the parts because I have everything on the van.

The one that really sticks out in my mind is this cabin. 10x10 access panel in the ceiling of a first floor bathroom, it's the lines for the 2nd floor bathroom and some drains. Dingle rookie goes and sees tight spot, several bad joints/bursts. Orders all propress stuff. I show up to the job and know this ain't going to happen. Aside from the fact that you couldn't even fit the propress in to do one of the joints, even with prefabricating some stuff first, there was no way in heck you were going to fix it a second time if the customer broke it again without opening some of the plaster ceiling. So I soldered it.

Ever try to winterize a place that has propress fittings? They hold water because they deform the pipe. Even if you get the pipe clear, humidity in the air can deposit water in the pipe when the temperature changes. Propress fittings have a lot more mass than the rest of the system so they heat/cool at different rates. And, even blowing a system out with a compressor nothing is 100% dry, only 99%, and that moisture colllects together if it can. We had a couple places back before we learned this where we used propress couplings and then the next year it would burst in the same spot, pushing the coupling off. At least with solder you can just solder it back together when the fittings push off.

Customer would want to save money so they would drain it themselves. They'd have us come in the spring to fix all the breaks. We tried some propress because it was the new thing. The next year when they had us winterize it to avoid breaks, we got breaks in the same darn spots pushing the couplings off. WTF? Must not have winterized properly, darn. New propress couplings a second time. Happened again! That's when we realized something funny was going on because we knew it was winterized properly that time.

And with solder you never have the diminishing pipe problem. Everytime you cut a pex, propress, or compression joint off the pipe gets shorter. I can unsweat solder fittings and reuse the connection. And yes, I know sometimes you can remove the compression ferrule and reuse the joint.
 
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philosopher and statesmen
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I would rather use sharkbites over propress....
I can still solder just fine too, and I have not had issues
with either way..

I worry about the pex pipe gettting weird in a decade or so
with all the chlorines and nasty stuff they are throwing in the
water around here these days...... Some day down the road
it will probably become an issue just like the poly pipe did back
in the early 80s.....


We presently got issues with water
softener resin expanding in the tanks and pushing out the tops
of the tanks and filling the houses with resin......

128062
 

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I would rather use sharkbites over propress....
I can still solder just fine too, and I have not had issues
with either way..

I worry about the pex pipe gettting weird in a decade or so
with all the chlorines and nasty stuff they are throwing in the
water around here these days...... Some day down the road
it will probably become an issue just like the poly pipe did back
in the early 80s.....


We presently got issues with water
softener resin expanding in the tanks and pushing out the tops
of the tanks and filling the houses with resin......

View attachment 128062


The Blob!!! Never seen that stuff!

128067
 

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The worst was a 16 tee 3" XLC boiler manifold, 5 years old. 1600$ in fittings had to be replaced because one of them failed at the o-ring and there wasn't enough length between them.
I’ve seen this way too many times. Especially on anything that’s not the Viega brand fittings. I will stand by good old fashioned sweat fittings all day long. I think the key to good solder joints apart from the obvious things like proper material prep and heat control is fresh flux. I think too many guys hang on to a tub of flux for way too long. Just because the tub seems to be endless doesn’t mean you shouldn’t throw it away and get a new one. Also there’s nothing that grinds my gears quite like a propress manifold that has the tees cocked in all different directions because it moves when you press it even if you have solid hangers on everything. Everything stays straight and true when you’re soldering it.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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I’ve seen this way too many times. Especially on anything that’s not the Viega brand fittings. I will stand by good old fashioned sweat fittings all day long. I think the key to good solder joints apart from the obvious things like proper material prep and heat control is fresh flux. I think too many guys hang on to a tub of flux for way too long. Just because the tub seems to be endless doesn’t mean you shouldn’t throw it away and get a new one. Also there’s nothing that grinds my gears quite like a propress manifold that has the tees cocked in all different directions because it moves when you press it even if you have solid hangers on everything. Everything stays straight and true when you’re soldering it.
I dont like anything that cannot be taken apart..... the propress stuff is a one shot deal and if you
need to make alterations you are screwed.... their are guys who want to see just how far they can
push the limit with that stuff ---like trying to propress a tub faucet together through the front trim hole
at an extreme angle.....
I would rather solder but I am getting lazy with shark bite male adaptors
that have not failed me yet

here is a pretty picture of another rising resin bed in our town thanks to the
shi//y water they are giving us


128076
 

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I worry about the pex pipe gettting weird in a decade or so
with all the chlorines and nasty stuff they are throwing in the
water around here these days...... Some day down the road
it will probably become an issue just like the poly pipe did back
in the early 80s.....
Maybe. Or maybe they just finally got it right. I wonder how many guys who were used to threaded brass or galvie were so positive that this new fangled copper wasn't going to last. You want me to what, get rid of threads? And use what, a freaking torch to heat the pipe? But I have to put this caustic jelly schitt on the pipe first? After I clean it all nice and shiney? And then use lead solder on the joint? Those joints will never last. In 10 years we'll all be back to threaded brass.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
...................here is a pretty picture of another rising resin bed in our town thanks to the
shi//y water they are giving us....
How full are your softeners? Ours are only like 80% full of resin. Maybe 6" of space in a ~55" tall tank.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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How full are your softeners? Ours are only like 80% full of resin. Maybe 6" of space in a ~55" tall tank.
actually they are about one quarter to half full or less... cube and a half units...

but this resin reacts with the chlormines and just literally swells up like its bread yeast and
totally crushes the distributor in the bottom of the tank and rises up and out the top......
 

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I’ve seen this way too many times. Especially on anything that’s not the Viega brand fittings. I will stand by good old fashioned sweat fittings all day long. I think the key to good solder joints apart from the obvious things like proper material prep and heat control is fresh flux. I think too many guys hang on to a tub of flux for way too long. Just because the tub seems to be endless doesn’t mean you shouldn’t throw it away and get a new one. Also there’s nothing that grinds my gears quite like a propress manifold that has the tees cocked in all different directions because it moves when you press it even if you have solid hangers on everything. Everything stays straight and true when you’re soldering it.
I was having a run of bad solder joints last year. Couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get the flux to stick or spread on the pipe or the fittings. Changed flux containers and that was it. I have yet to have that problem with my propress.
Yes everything does want to move sometimes when you press it, but just like with sweating if you want to be a craftsman you learn how to get it right. Some artists are good with painting, some better at scultpture. Plus propress looks cool and is all the rage with the steampunk crowd.
 

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I was having a run of bad solder joints last year. Couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get the flux to stick or spread on the pipe or the fittings. Changed flux containers and that was it. I have yet to have that problem with my propress.
Yes everything does want to move sometimes when you press it, but just like with sweating if you want to be a craftsman you learn how to get it right. Some artists are good with painting, some better at scultpture. Plus propress looks cool and is all the rage with the steampunk crowd.
My main gripe with pro press is when you have to put fittings close together there is no ability to make a change/repair sometime down the road and even if you leave enough room to add a coupling you’re only making provisions for a single repair. Once it’s presses it can’t be undone. You could potentially have to cut out hundreds or thousands of dollars in fittings just to fix a small leak. That’s why I am all in for pro press on long runs of pipe but refuse to install it in tight spaces with multiple fittings close together.
 

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My main gripe with pro press is when you have to put fittings close together there is no ability to make a change/repair sometime down the road and even if you leave enough room to add a coupling you’re only making provisions for a single repair. Once it’s presses it can’t be undone. You could potentially have to cut out hundreds or thousands of dollars in fittings just to fix a small leak. That’s why I am all in for pro press on long runs of pipe but refuse to install it in tight spaces with multiple fittings close together.

They started to use some type of press on pex too when they replace water heaters. I wonder if it will be compatible with crimp rings and I might have more pipe to change out.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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My main gripe with pro press is when you have to put fittings close together there is no ability to make a change/repair sometime down the road and even if you leave enough room to add a coupling you’re only making provisions for a single repair. Once it’s presses it can’t be undone. You could potentially have to cut out hundreds or thousands of dollars in fittings just to fix a small leak. That’s why I am all in for pro press on long runs of pipe but refuse to install it in tight spaces with multiple fittings close together.
Seriously, what is the difference between propress and a sharkbite fitting..??
They both have exactly the same o-ring within them to seal the pipe...
.

2 advantages to sharkbite fittings is you can use them on multiple brands of pex
which is a lifesaver in many , many situations....
This cant be done with propress to my knowledge

you can take the sharkbites apart with a tool and make modifications to the plan
where you cannot with propress....
I have yet to have a failure with one blowing apart

both have their pros and cons..

I am willing to bet a lot of sharkbite fittings are gonna get used down
in Texas when those windmills thaw out and the power comes back on to 4+ million
people with frozen pipes.......

Now thats gonna be a good time for all... and propex aint gonna
work well on all the pex plumbing under all those trailers.....lol 😄 😆
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Seriously, what is the difference between propress and a sharkbite fitting..??
They both have exactly the same o-ring within them to seal the pipe............

The sharkbite "can" come off suddenly, propress won't.


Happened to us twice which is why we don't use them any more. The o-ring in a sharkbite isn't permanently restrained from movement so it can chafe and leak. I don't much care for propress either but I am okay with using propress when need be. Would you plumb a whole house in sharkbite instead of propress if it cost the same? Around here only the hacks and diy use sharkbites. They cost a lot. We only really used the caps for demo and occasionally a valve in the past.

I will say, when I did use sharkbites, I always pulled back on them good so the teeth dug in and I knew they were on nicely. Most important part is not cutting the oring on the pipe which can even happen with pex.

A lot of our job is risk assessment. How many times do you have to have those delta supply lines fail before you stop cutting them? How many shark bites have to fail before you stop using them?

I don't blame any of you for using sharkbites if you have no issues. But I swear to gosh if you cut delta supply lines you're an arrogant son of a beach!! ;)
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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I have had only one failure with a sharkbite ball valve and I am pretty sure it was
human error when my helper who did not sink the valve totally down on the copper pipe.... that was
probably 9 years ago..... I normally knock them on with my trusty channel lock pliers to make
double sure they are 100% tight...


its been all quiet on the western front ever since...
..
 

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I use both progress (NIbco line mostly) or solder with good results. They have there place, the cost of Propress keeps me from using them more, but I do use them in repair quite a bit. Not fool proof and sometimes soldering is easier or better. I use SharkBites on CPVC for the most part, sometimes in repair if its the right choice for the situation or sometimes on water service lines. All piping and connections can fail and leak.....Here in NE Oklahoma Wirsbo/Uponor is the preferred method of PEX by plumbers on new construction almost 100%, it seems to last about 10 years then starts getting pinholes. Extremely common for me to see, happen all the time. If you use recirculating pumps with it, it's a guarantee leak in 10 years max. Bad thing is for the home owner is almost every home is on a slab, which can make for quite the expensive repair....
 
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