[Bill]

I was just watching a program where they slid a brass ring onto the pipe, then used tool to expand the end of the pex pipe, then used the other end of the tool to pull the brass up and over the swollen part of the pipe. Does anyone use this? Whats the advantages/Dis advantages to this system? What about cost difference in materials? Why use this over traditional rings?

 

[22rifle]

I was just watching a program where they slid a brass ring onto the pipe, then used tool to expand the end of the pex pipe, then used the other end of the tool to pull the brass up and over the swollen part of the pipe. Does anyone use this? Whats the advantages/Dis advantages to this system? What about cost difference in materials? Why use this over traditional rings?

Rehau was the first with it. Uponor rolled it out and now others are following.

It is the best out there. The tools cost a fortune and the fittings cost me.

But it is bulletproof.

 

[Herk]

USP45, I don't think it was a brass ring, unless it's something I'm not aware. The Wirsbo/Rehau system uses a plastic ring that expands with the pipe, then shrinks back over the fitting. The only other systems I'm currently aware of (or remember) are the stainless-steel rings and the copper crimp rings, which for PEX are usually coated black.

The advantage of the SS rings is that the same tool is used for all sizes. So far, I've only used the copper rings - I've never seen anything else available in this area. The tools I use are the same ones I used with Polybutylene.

 

[Bill]

This is a brass ring about oh maybe 3/4" long. It slips over the pipe and on the other side of the expansion tool is the crimper. I will see if I can find some pix

 

[22rifle]

Wirsbo, now known as Uponor is the only one that used the PEX ring over the pipe.

Rehau was the only one that used the APR type system that USP45 is describing. They let the patent run out or whatever and Uponor jumped on the APR bandwagon too.

Rehau also has the copper crimp ring method. Then there is the stainless steel band method as well as Viega's stainless steel sleeve method.

Of course Kitec has their own propietary crimp ring method as well as their own compression method. And then a lot of different manufacterers had their own compression fittings too.

I think I am missing a system or two but I basically have them covered here.

Uponor's system that herk is describing is where you slip a ring made out of PEX over the end of the PEX, make it flush with the end of the pipe, expand it and slip it over a fitting. It's a good method and in my opinion the next to best method.

But the APR type fitting system which USP45 is describing is much better. Each fitting "extension" (I mean like, a 90 has two of these, a tee has three.) has a collar. You slip a brass sleeve over the pipe. The inside of the end of this sleeve is beveled nicely and this bevel is toward the fitting. You then expand the pipe, but not this brass sleeve and slip the pipe over the fitting. Then you use a tool with 2 U shaped heads to squeeze the sleeve over the pipe, onto the fitting. That is where that collar comes into play.

It takes a bit more time but for the discriminating plumber there is no better fitting system. Unfortunately, the fittings are not available in my area. Makes me sad.

A like new set of the Rehau tools for this system recently sold on eBay for over $800.00 so the tools are not cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370068327317

 

[22rifle]

Here is an 11MB movie showing a demo of the Rehau APR type system. It is safe to download. It is hosted by a large rep agency that reps Rehau.

http://www.mmirep.com/video/Rehau-Everlock-Fittings.wmv

 

[Bill]

Thats the one! What advantages besides a tighter seal? What about the cost of those sleeves as opposed to rings? Do they last longer? Also it appears to me you better be sure before you crimp with this thing!

 

[22rifle]

The fittings cost more. The sleeves are more expensive, but not that terribly expensive.

The thing is, if you pay a wee bit of attention you will never screw up a joint. In all the ones I did, I only messed up one joint. It was a temporary joint so I let it just to see if it would hold. After I cut it out I made up a little loop thing and put 120 pounds air on it. Still no leak. But really, no surprise because the only thing compromised with my bad joint was aesthetics. The pipe was a bit crooked n the joint. But the way these are made, the joint had to be good regardless.

You almost can't screw these up. You run a higher risk of screwing up a crimped joint than these.

With a crimped joint you have a very small fitting ID. With these you have a full bore fitting ID.

Also, with the crimp joint you have a tiny copper band crimping a tiny section of the joint. With these you have a full length sleeve that cannot stretch locking the pipe to the fitting.

See, the space between the ID of the sleeve and the OD of the pipe is not near as thick as the pipe wall. So when you force that sleeve up over the expanded pipe it becomes the most secure joint available in the world of PEX so far. Nothing else comes close.

 

[threaderman]

It almost doesn't pay to buy into a new line of plastics until it has bein around for a while because it never fails,as soon as you get tools and material for one type of connection, another ,better type of connection comes out for the same pipe.It gets hard to find shelf space for the different materials and tools needed in the repair world.:laughing:

 

[Bill]

Thats right, I remember when pex hit here. I bought 4 crimpers, two 1/2" and two 3/4" and they were like 130.00 a piece! Now I can get them for about 80.00!

 

[Mike Jessome]

This is right up my alley this is what we do your talking about Rehau there you pump the pipe up slide the fitting in and then turn the tool around and it pushes the metal ring on to the end of the fitting. It's a good system, but we don't use it we use Wirsbo/Uponor which you just pump up the pipe slide the fitting in and the pipe will reshape over the fitting. Wirsbo is cheaper faster and just as efficent, and has a 25 year warrenty. Rehau takes longer since you have to clamp the rings on every joint and is more costly, they both work, but my boss has used wirsbo for near 15 years now and has never had a problem, so I guess i'm kind of biased.

 

[22rifle]

Understand, when I claim Rehau's system produces a better joint, I am not saying anything negative about the Uponor joints. (Wirsbo is now Uponor)

 

[gear junkie]

The system the op inquired about is called the everloc system. There's only one supply house that carries them and the cost of the tools has kept me from buying them. I'll just stick with the watts cinchclamp system for now.

 

[Herk]

I watched the video for the Everlock system and although the fittings look bulletproof and I really like the full-port size of the fittings, I can visualize far too many tight places that the thing just won't go. I think I'll stick with the simpler system - at least until I see failures.

 

[nhmaster3015]

Uponor did indeed use the pull up ring for a short time and then backed out of the system over concerns about fitting leakage. Apparantly they had a couple failues leading to lawsuits so the dropped it. Uponor claims that they have never had a law suit due to product failure with the ring over system.

 

[22rifle]

Uponor did indeed use the pull up ring for a short time and then backed out of the system over concerns about fitting leakage. Apparantly they had a couple failues leading to lawsuits so the dropped it.

Got a source for that?

 

[Scott K]

The company I work for uses the Rehau Everloc system in high end homes pretty regularly. It's the cats ass as far as quality of connection goes but it's not as good as Wirsbo or Crimp-Pex for tight spaces.

At one of the suppliers I go to they had a quarter cut out of a Rehau everloc connection and out of a Wirsbo connection so you could see the profile of the sleeve/ring,pipe, & fitting and the Rehau Everloc looks like it will never fail, period. Very rugged, and almost impossible to screw up. The other thing is as mentioned, the everloc system's fittings have a larger cross section than crimp-pex fittings and Wirsbo fittings so they can flow more water/have less resriction.

The other thing that is neat about the Rehau system is their adapters are usually 2 purpose adapters. For example you can get 1/2" Everloc by 1/2" female copper adapters that also act as a male copper into 3/4". Pretty much all of their copper adapters work like this, and even some of their MIP adapters are also designed to act as copper females as well.

 

[JCsPlumbing]

Anyone use the EP fittings within the Wirsbo system?

J.C.

 

[Scott K]

I've used them - what do you need to know? There's not much too them. But I can't believe what I've heard - they're apparently more expensive than BRASS Crimp pex fitting s(Assuming you're talking about EP meaning Plastic Wirsbo fittings?)

 

[brad7596]

in aust i use rehau i prefer it because its a thicker pipe and its a solid join the tool we use has a swivel head so it fits in most places particularly compared to crimpers problem is there a so many brands its impossible to keep up i will hate to see 20yrs in the future when half these brands are gone or bought out.