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Professional Bullshioter
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IL no. IL plumbing code
IN yes. UPC (still have to have 1 main VTR though)
 

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Lot's of older homes around here with "S" traps going through the bottom of the kitchen sink cabinet and not vented. I know about the "S" traps not being legal but we have what we have here. I rebuild them all the time including the studor vents, works like a charm.
 

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Unfortunatly they are allowed here. When we adopted the IPC, the board pretty much adopted it word for word with very few ammendments. Many of us fought very hard to have the heinous things dissallowed but since most code review boards are infested with whores who's only interest is getting a pay off from manufacturers we were overruled. These and other abominations like Shark Bites are responsible for the dumbing down of the profession. I've been at this for 36 years now and have never ever had to install an aav, nor have I ever had to flat vent a fixture or wet vent a bath group in any damn order. Sure, you can install an aav and get in and out quick but that's not what we learned our profession for (notice I don't use the word trade) Plumbing is a "profession" it requires training, skill and thought. Must we always stoop to the easy way out?
 

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residential service
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I went on chronic drain call at a rent house a couple of years ago. Showed all the classic signs of a venting issue. I start looking around outside for vent penetrations, ... I don't find any. I go inside to find the attic access, ... I find none. I ask myself "how could this house have been built with no plumbing vents and no attic access?" I go into the crawl space. The house has obviously been "repiped" at some point. The drainage looks like my kids tinker toys. Well I finally found the vents. Scattered seemingly randomly along the drainage system I found several aav's. Of course the very first time there was ever a mainline blockage resulting in a back up, every one of the aav's was fouled and never worked properly again. Now of course I realize that all of them were improperly installed and that there still was supposed to be at least one fresh air vent through the roof but it served as a very dramatic re-inforcement of what I already new. That is, that a mechanical vent is just that, a mechanical vent and anything mechanical can and will fail one day.
 

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Yep, and though an s trap is susceptable to siphonage I would rather see an S trap than an AAV under a sink. At least you can run a little water down the drain to re-seal the trap.
 

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I'm certainly not saying it's the correct way to go but it's a fact that they are used and they do have a use in certain situations. If I do a service call for someone and tell them their kitchen sink is not vented and the proper way to do this job is to vent it to the outside and they balk and won't pay I'm not going to walk off the job, sorry. The aav's are legal to use in a situation like this, I'll use it. There is no way it's going to foul either being any main line blockage will show itself through the basement floor drain before it ever reaches the upstairs kitchen. For example, I have a two story home built in 1916. The kitchen sink looks like it's been moved twice during that time from what I can see in the basement. When I moved into this house 6 years ago I noticed there wasn't a vent for the kitchen. There was no way I was going to start ripping out walls just so I could "properly and professionally" install a vent. I'm a licensed Master Plumber like most of you, I installed the aav and it's been working perfectly for six years.
Regarding shark bites, I carry them. I use them in a tight squeeze. Last time I used one was last summer so it's not very often. I Like them better than the older brass compression couplings with the rubbers.
 

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Chase Plumber
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289 Posts
Not permissible in Kentucky. Everything has to be re-vented back to the branch vent, then onto the stack.


Although, mobile homes have these, newer ones. Do they have their own plumbing code?

Such as The Home Show, Clayton Homes, etc..
 

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Chase Plumber
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289 Posts
Regarding shark bites, I carry them. I use them in a tight squeeze. Last time I used one was last summer so it's not very often. I Like them better than the older brass compression couplings with the rubbers.
ASSE 1061 type fittings are only allowed up to 2" in Ky.
 

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We call those farmers vents 'round here. Illegal for any use in city limits, but once you get out to the boonies it is fair game for farmers.
 

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I do agree that an AAV is not the ideal way to properly vent a fixture. I have also been in the position where I've had to use them. We use the IPC and the IRC (International Residential Code) here in Connecticut and they are code approved in both codes.

My feeling is that they certainly aren't a replacement for a stack vent or vent stack but in some instances they can improve the drainage of an individual fixture.

I'm not talking about the old "V-200". As you all know, those had the small springs inside the body of the unit that failed in the closed position, causing a vacuum to form inside the fixture drain, preventing drainage of that fixture. These newer units use a diaphragm, no springs.

I will make every effort to persuade my clients to spend the extra money to install an individual or common vent. My argument is that simpler, tried and true methods that use only physics to operate will outlast anything that relies on mechanical parts. Sometimes I lose that battle though, and I install an AAV, which still keeps me within the boundaries of my respective state code.

I will refuse to go anywhere near the 3-4" AAV's though. there is something about a unit that effectively closes off a vent to backpressure and is essentially a vacuum breaker that scares the hell out of me!!
 

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For over a hundred years modern plumbing has been based on a system that uses no mechanical parts. The theory being that the system would always be protected from sewer gas. A very simple thing the P trap is. A true miracle of design. And here we are selling the trade down the river with AAV's and waterless urinals and on the horizon is grey water recycling. All for a few extra dollars. The state expects me to instruct plumbers on the contents of IPC Appendix C, Waste water recycling. I find the topic disturbing to say the least.
 

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Master Plumber
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They are permitted in the 2006 National Standard Plumbing Code, which is what we use here in NJ. They are considered a ,"Special Design Plumbing System". To use one the system must be," designed by a registered design professional licensed to practice in the particular jurisdiction". Whatever the hell that means!?

A friend of mine called the Dept of Consumer Affairs, they oversee all the code officials and are the final word on code interpretation here. He was told that in order to use an aav, the architect would have to submit a sealed drawing for approval. You won't save anyone any time or money that way. This information is buried in the back of the code book in appendix E Part 8. No mention of them in Ch 12 Vents and Venting. However, I believe they can work and be very helpful when installed correctly. We do a lot of work in high end custom homes and if we can avoid tearing up the walls on the second floor when renovating a first floor kitchen or bath, why not?
 

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Illinois Licensed Plumber
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I love it when I do a job and explain to the home owner the are not allowed in Illinois, then they want to argue the point to use an AAV because Home Depot, and Ferguson plumbing supply sells them. I explain to them that the plumbing code cannot stop anyone from selling stuff that does not meet the code, but it does keep you from using it. Just like an Auto parts store selling items that can make your car not street legal anymore, the law can not stop the sale but can stop the use of it on your car.
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Tis true.....and no one is going to police the homeowner replacing their own water heater either.


There's lots of other ways to blow yourself up....like refilling a lawnmower while it's hot....and you're in a hurry because you did it every time before and never caught yourself on fire.
 
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