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I aint CPV see in it?
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Discussion Starter #1
I see so many post on this forum about whats the best, screw you we do it better, your company, techniques, and/or products suck. You guys have to believe and agree with me that this is still a business right?
Water heater companies figured it out eventually. Thats why we replace so many here lately after ten Yrs of use right?
Im not against doing a great job for a customer, but there has to be some reasoning behind some of this GREATEST PLUMBING WORK EVER SEEN BS.
Bottom line, this is still a business. I dont want to put ourselves out of a job by supplying and demanding only the "BEST" products available by mankind.
Just a lil rant by RSP.
 

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Do you feel better now?
 

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Sure we do the best job. I dont ever want to replace a faucet after i install it, not even 30 years later.. but i do want to replace that other faucet i saw in your house. and I know that customer is gonna call me back because i did such a good job last time... let your work speak for itself.. yellow pages has nothing on word of mouth..
 

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٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶&#
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I've got to disagree. It's that attitude that has made America second class to the Japanese and the Germans and the Swiss and... You get the idea. There was a time when we produced the some of the finest things in the world. My view is that it's better to do it right once than cheap 4 times. It's this short sighted view that's killing our country. I could go one for hours but I’ve got to go to work.
 

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Former Moderator
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There was a time when we were proud Americans and took pride in what we produced. There was a time we would be proud of the fact that we spent $$$$$ for a high quality product. Today's pride seems centered around how cheap something is.

Today's clothing would be called 'seconds, imperfect, slightly damaged' years ago. Very little that is sold today would have made it past quality control in our own factories.

RSP - You are right in that plumbing is a business. Nothing should last forever, if it does, you should charge accordingly. I'm not accusing you of the following, but here is how 'i'm looking out for me' becomes a bigger problem:

Owner of 'Cheap Pauls Plumbing' is proud of the fact that he makes six figures, his wife is a stay-at-home Mom(the ultimate status symbol), they drive nice cars, live in the right neighborhood, and socialize with the right people. It matters little to him that the plumbing services and products he has sold will not last. After all, everyone knows that quality is a thing of the past (not his fault). In fact, better for him, maybe a nice boat next year! His toys and lifestyle blind him to the fact that his customers are paying the price for his cheapness. Cheap Paul forgets what quality is altogether. A year or two down the line Cheap Paul starts getting calls from HO Insurance companies - a flood here, a flood there. His liability premiums go through the roof. To add insult to injury, his own HO Insurance premium goes up too! That really sucks because he has never had a claim as a HO. Cheap Paul realizes he has to pass his costs along to stay in business. HOWEVER, you cannot be 'Cheap Pauls Plumbing' and charge more than your competitors and expect to stay in business. Numbers don't lie, he raises his prices, and his customer base starts to shrink.

You may think this is the beginning of the end - you would be wrong. The beginning of the end was when 'Cheap Paul' decided quality didn't matter.

'Cheap Paul's Plumbing' goes out of business. Cheap Paul now makes Plumber's pay. There goes the house, the stay-at-home Mom, the fancy cars, and socializing with the right people. Everyone says 'Cheap Paul' had it all, he just got greedy. He started with the right idea . . .

Next comes 'Plumbing For Less.' A no frills company. Their prices are only cheaper because they don't have a lot of overhead. They want to grow, but cannot raise their prices and still be called 'Plumbing For Less.' Quality - what is quality? No one wants to pay for it. Off to Home Depot & Lowes and the cycle begins all over again.

Quality pays and cheapness costs!
 

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What's considered quality today? We all use the basic faucets every day for service work. Delta, Moen, Price Pfister, American Standard, gerber etc., so what makes for a cheap faucet?

Are we going to install a Chicago or Grohe on every service call? No we're not.

In my book cheap is the hardware store brand, the HD Supply brands, the plastic ones, the no namers. But still, are you going to be sued because you install one and it springs a leak? I doubt it as long as your install is up to par. They would have to prove negligence in order to have your liability insurance flip the bill. Puting in a cheaper faucet does not prove negligence. Just proves that you're cheap.

Lately I'm sticking with the Delta's, I like the new diamond series for hard water. I think they're a good faucet.
 

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master of disaster
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QUALITY-WORKMANSHIP @ PRIDE that about says it all, 33yrs. as a plumber, 25yrs. as a shop [business] owner and thats my story and im sticking to it!!!!!!

oh ya- HONESTY, im done- bye!!!!!!
 

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Former Moderator
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Not referring to name brand faucets or anything else for that matter. I'm referring to cheap materials that everyone can agree is cheaply made. Plastic pop-ups come to mind.

I define quality as something that will prove it's value over time. Since labor is the same on both the cheap faucet as it is on a quality faucet, I would expect the final product to last for a comparable period of time. Often, this is not the case. When you factor in multiple replacements over time, the cheap faucet actually turns into the more expensive faucet. Which IMHO is just plain ignorance/stupidity.

Being liable is only a part of the equation. Fighting the liability claim can put a small business under. Just a small legal case can run into the tens of thousands in legal fees.
 

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It's no secret that most of the products we install are made with less quality than they were 20+ years ago. I won't use the plastic pop up's, I toss them even if it's a customer supplied faucet.
Recalls and leaks are caused by taking short cuts. If in doubt then replace it. Don't use the old supplies, don't use the old stops. If there is a chance of a leak then cut it out and replace it. Check it, double check it, and then look again, and then one more time on the way out. It's very rare I get a recall these days (knock on wood) because I do the above and I have never (knock on wood again) had a liablity claim in over 20 years.
 

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master of disaster
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758 Posts
i have a story to tell- a horror story! may 2005 went to house to install HO faucet, it was acheap plastic faucet from home depo, very fancey but plastic, new kitchen-custom-hardwood floors- rec. room below kitchen, really nice home! told HO : let me sell you a good quality faucet , she had to have her faucet installed because it was so PRETTY, it was like putting kia hubcaps on a cadillac! i thought well if she likes it so much ill put it on , 2 days later major leak!!! bad situation, ended up in court who was going to pay my ins. or HO ins. ,1 yr. later guess who paid? my ins.they said: legal cost was running up so they setteled claim, my ins. co. said: that i was the professional i should have walked. it was one of them times i did not want to disapoint a good customer. i have never had a ins. claim before this; NEVER AGAIN!!!! cheap parts i walk!!!! 16,0000dollars later i learned a big big lesson; IF ITS CHEAP - WALK- by the way the HO told her ins. co. she told me to put it on, she felt bad about the whole deal, i still work for her but guess what? she wants me to install my parts, she also learned a big lesson, only at my ins. co. @ my expense!

REAL BUMMER! you make the final decision!!!
 

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To date the largest claim for damages I have ever been involved with for a single faucet leak was just shy of $900,000. The problem was likely more HO error than anything else but it was a remodel where the GC did not pull permits, the plumber did not pull permits and the faucet was a very expensive but unlisted faucet. It is tough to defend against that stuff regardless of what the HO did.

Mark
 

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900 GRAND??? Holy Bat sh*t Batman!!!!!!!!! What kind of damage did the faucet leak do? One thing I have heard is that if the HO let's a leak go, knows about it, and doesn't call right away then THEY are responsible.
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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5,478 Posts
To date the largest claim for damages I have ever been involved with for a single faucet leak was just shy of $900,000. The problem was likely more HO error than anything else but it was a remodel where the GC did not pull permits, the plumber did not pull permits and the faucet was a very expensive but unlisted faucet. It is tough to defend against that stuff regardless of what the HO did.

Mark


That's why I pass on all calls related to high rise condos that are million dollar flats in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.


It's not worth the risk as a leak heading from one floor to another is a massive cost at that point.


Not gunna, don't wunna.
 

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No Longer at This Address
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900 GRAND??? Holy Bat sh*t Batman!!!!!!!!! What kind of damage did the faucet leak do? One thing I have heard is that if the HO let's a leak go, knows about it, and doesn't call right away then THEY are responsible.
It was a multi-million dollar home and the leak happened while they were on vacation. It was the gardener who noticed water coming out of the front door and turned the water off. By then the entire first floor was destroyed.

Mark
 
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