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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a call today from a friend of a friend who needed a toilet reset. I was told that it was leaking on the floor. So I went over and started looking at the toilet thinking an easy toilet reset; no big deal. There was water on the floor when I got there. The floor is tile and doesn't show where water was coming from very well, but it the caulking was perfect around the base of the toilet. I wound up pulling to the toilet, but there was nothing obvious. The wax was stuck to both the flange and the bottom of the toilet. I figured out that the canister was splashing when the toilet was flushed. The water was running down the underside of the lid and down the back of the toilet on to the floor. I have never seen this before. Now, I don't do a lot of service, but this is just frustrating engineering if all of these toilets do this.

In the pics below, you can see where water splashes on the bottom of the tank lid. I left the tank lid out in the sun for a little while to get it dry, then flushed it as gently as I could. This is what it did. But when you actually press on the handle (as anyone really would, especially the 8 and 11 year old kids around there), it splashes a good amount of water up on the lid.

I wound up replacing the flush valve with a flapper and that seems to have fixed it.

Anyway, just thought I'd share.



130370
130371
 

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Reverend, R.S.E., Master Plumber
Nice Head, what’s in the bag?
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Idk why they keep trying to reinvent/improve the flapper.
Do water splash out of the overflow when the lid is off, with a reg flush?
if so it’s usually caused by an air bubble that is trapped under the flapper/overflow tube, once flushed this bubble has to go somewhere.
 

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I got a call today from a friend of a friend who needed a toilet reset. I was told that it was leaking on the floor. So I went over and started looking at the toilet thinking an easy toilet reset; no big deal. There was water on the floor when I got there. The floor is tile and doesn't show where water was coming from very well, but it the caulking was perfect around the base of the toilet. I wound up pulling to the toilet, but there was nothing obvious. The wax was stuck to both the flange and the bottom of the toilet. I figured out that the canister was splashing when the toilet was flushed. The water was running down the underside of the lid and down the back of the toilet on to the floor. I have never seen this before. Now, I don't do a lot of service, but this is just frustrating engineering if all of these toilets do this.

In the pics below, you can see where water splashes on the bottom of the tank lid. I left the tank lid out in the sun for a little while to get it dry, then flushed it as gently as I could. This is what it did. But when you actually press on the handle (as anyone really would, especially the 8 and 11 year old kids around there), it splashes a good amount of water up on the lid.

I wound up replacing the flush valve with a flapper and that seems to have fixed it.

Anyway, just thought I'd share.



View attachment 130370 View attachment 130371
Best thing you could have done,I change out Mansfield's as well to the flapper style flushvalve,homeowners can't believe how easy it is to flush afterwards
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@Logtec: seriously. The flapper has been around a long time and is simple, cheap, and works great.
Water comes out and goes up like 30” with a regular flush. It’s real obvious that’s where the water was coming from. The splash is kinda impressive.

@sparky: good to hear. I just couldn’t find a way to keep that thing from splashing. Went back to what works….
 

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@Logtec: seriously. The flapper has been around a long time and is simple, cheap, and works great.
Water comes out and goes up like 30” with a regular flush. It’s real obvious that’s where the water was coming from. The splash is kinda impressive.

@sparky: good to hear. I just couldn’t find a way to keep that thing from splashing. Went back to what works….
I hope you don't use the flapper that comes with the replacement flush valve, they are always warped, can't tell you how many calbacks I've seen from those. I always use a big orange flapper.

The fluidmaster flappers on the pro57 have a card piece stuck on them that causes warping. The black flappers on the WB#57731 are just crapola and the chains will kink up and hold the flapper open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You are funny. I ONLY use big orange flappers.

I love WB stuff. I also really love their brass fill valves.
 

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Most likely you had a hard water blockage in the canister cap. Pull off hose, use a poker in the yellow nipple to clear debris, reconnect hose and be done.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don’t think so. The water was splashing up the sides of the canister. And the hose wasn’t connected when I got there.
 

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You are funny. I ONLY use big orange flappers.

I love WB stuff. I also really love their brass fill valves.
As in an all brass ballcock? Me gusta.

I hate Hush valves. The inlet screens clog up too easily, and if you remove them then the fill valve clogs inside where you can't clear it. Hush valves ain't so hush when they start to clog with sediment.

The inlet filter in a Pro45 will actually help to limit water hammer when the pressure is high. Usually I remove them though and most debris will move through the fill valve with no issue. When it does clog I can easily remove the top cap from the fill valve and flush out any debris. Pro45's also fill much faster.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Here you go. All brass, rebuildable, lifetime quality ball cock. They actually take a little skill to put in because of the float rod and the refill tube (its threaded soft copper). They also won’t fit in all toilets because you have to use an older style ball float.

I haven’t fixed one in over 10 years but they used to carry all of the flush ball and brass rod stuff for wall hung tank toilets too.

Also they make the best angle stops. They are reasonably priced but just plain high quality.
 

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Here you go. All brass, rebuildable, lifetime quality ball cock. They actually take a little skill to put in because of the float rod and the refill tube (its threaded soft copper). They also won’t fit in all toilets because you have to use an older style ball float.

I haven’t fixed one in over 10 years but they used to carry all of the flush ball and brass rod stuff for wall hung tank toilets too.

Also they make the best angle stops. They are reasonably priced but just plain high quality.
You need not extoll the virtues of WB to me, I agree WB makes SOME of the best stuff. Unfortunately I've been ordering less and less from them. I think soon I will quit using their chrome p-traps. The brass is not as corrosion resistant as before and our supply house has managed to find some alright chrome stuff lately.

Once a year I will install one of those all brass ballcocks in a toilet. I prefer them with copper lined tanks because you can really crank them down, making a large water tight area which prevents corrosion around the penetration. That's the killer for copper liners, the corrosion near the penetration.

I agree ballcocks are the best fill valve, but for the price it just doesn't make sense unless it's an antique toilet. Customers would think I was crazy to put them in most toilets. Those who like their homes to be period correct love it when I tell them we stock all the parts to fix them as original. I keep a float ball/rod, tank ball, ballcock washers, handle linkages, and linkage guides on the van.

Do you have the tool for threading 1/4" copper to use as refill tubing? I do ;)
 

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I don’t think so. The water was splashing up the sides of the canister. And the hose wasn’t connected when I got there.
Not that it matters anymore since you changed it to a flapper flush valve. But the red canister seals when they start failing get really sticky and gummy. When you use the handle to flush, the canister can’t pull up easily and then jumps up with a lot of force and splashes water. Change it to a yellow one.
 

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Reverend, R.S.E., Master Plumber
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I agree ballcocks are the best fill valve, but for the price it just doesn't make sense unless it's an antique toilet. Customers would think I was crazy to put them in most toilets. Those who like their homes to be period correct love it when I tell them we stock all the parts to fix them as original. I keep a float ball/rod, tank ball, ballcock washers, handle linkages, and linkage guides on the van.
99,9% of my high end clients don’t want or care about “period correct” mech parts in there w/c’s, faucets etc, They just want the look or what’s trendy, which is kinda funny.
They will pay big $$$ for the look, but not the vintage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Not that it matters anymore since you changed it to a flapper flush valve. But the red canister seals when they start failing get really sticky and gummy. When you use the handle to flush, the canister can’t pull up easily and then jumps up with a lot of force and splashes water. Change it to a yellow one.
Good to know. Problem is: it was a yellow one.

I guess I could have replaced the canister, but it was a Sunday and I needed to get it done.

So, here’s the question, do you all keep a canister on the truck?

IMO the business cost of the job goes way up if I have to go to the supply house in the middle of a small job like this one. And you can’t really charge more -I guess you can; but you’ve got to bury it somewhere.

I don’t do a lot of service, but I most certainly keep a stock of parts around for stuff like this.
 
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