Installing a Water Heater Hooked to a Drain Pipe

3632 Views 12 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Alan, Feb 8, 2010

DUNBAR PLUMBING

Discussion Starter · Feb 5, 2010 (Edited)

:whistling2:WTF??!?!??!?!??! :whistling2:

It's been installed that way since 1920, working I know for some time,

but I would "guess" where the piping 90's into the wall is the culprit.

Just look at the deterioration of that wall and tell me that there isn't a huge pile of of mortar and brick, leaves sitting in that arrangement.

For those of you who are skeptics of "why" I installed that water heater to begin with? How can I prove the corrosion/deterioration of that top of the water heater isn't "normal" ? How do I not look at all the condensation that destroyed the galvanized piping, the lack of no proper access to clean that piping, anything in this laundry list of issues. ???

Well, ask yourself how do you recreate a situation of 40,000 BTU's forcing through a 3" flue at a minimum 300fpm's a second, just using a flame from a match or a simple burning edge of a newspaper....

Neither will act as a true measure of what that water heater is doing.

That's why I'd be hard pressed to believe that even one of you have a Dwyer #460 air meter to gauge what the actual fpms of your last gas water heater install really is.

Then ask me if I didn't check for cold draft and didn't do a force start on the water heater - sealing the draft diverter and the holes at the pipe leading outside to see if I could warm that pipe on this cold winter day to get it to draw.

Telling a customer NO when something they "think" has been operating for 90+ years is grounds for dismissal without income. Showing/proving the situation and instructing/educating the consumer values to both you and them both, especially if you have a camera and document it for the world to see. :thumbsup:

Sometimes cause and action work in the element of valued learning, and I've been wanting to make a video of this type of situation for years, because I've entered this dangerous peril many many times with the customers scooting me out the door and me without income.

This is where the honest plumber will always win.

I'm not dumb, I just play dumb on the internet. :laughing:

There's more to this story unfolding...

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trick1

· #2 · Feb 5, 2010

People look at us funny when we drill a hole in the chimney connector and check draft after the regulator and they look even harder when we are able to check the draft over the combustion chamber.............and we do this for the reason that you just found.

I've seen people end up in hospitals and homes because of a "mysterious" illness when in fact the clay tile liner of their masonry chimney collapsed and caused co poisoning.....

Checking for proper draft is as important as checking for a natural gas leak and that's a fact

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TheMaster

· #3 · Feb 5, 2010

I'm not second guessing you but heres how I would have handled that call. Once I saw that vent all jacked up in the basement thats the 1st thing I would have investigated before i touched it......I usually give a price on the phone for a water heater replacement and tell them once I get to the job and look it over I will tell you if its a normal install and if I find problems will give you an idea of what it will cost to correct it. In this situation you have I would have found out the vent had to be replaced before i touched it. They might would want to change to electric....but now they are kinda trapped with the gas one being they paid you to install it.

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stillaround

· #4 · Feb 5, 2010

I agree on that phone skill.

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TheMaster

· #5 · Feb 5, 2010

I do not vent anything into a chimney but gas logs. Its not allowed here anymore. I always tell them if the vents not proper it will be extra for sure. With that water heater not drawing the new G.E heater would eventually over heat and the trd pop.

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OldSchool

· #6 · Feb 5, 2010

WTF.... who in the hell would have vented that out like that. Time to put in a power vent (side wall venting). Nice call Dunbar

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DUNBAR PLUMBING

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 5, 2010

TheMaster said:
I'm not second guessing you but heres how I would have handled that call. Once I saw that vent all jacked up in the basement thats the 1st thing I would have investigated before i touched it......I usually give a price on the phone for a water heater replacement and tell them once I get to the job and look it over I will tell you if its a normal install and if I find problems will give you an idea of what it will cost to correct it. In this situation you have I would have found out the vent had to be replaced before i touched it. They might would want to change to electric....but now they are kinda trapped with the gas one being they paid you to install it.

I don't agree with the piping arrangement either, but I'll tell you what I find in these old homes:

Cast-iron piping used as vent pipe

That thick asbestos pipe

Vitrified Clay pipe

Dryer duct

Single wall galvanized pipe over double wall B vent piping

Aluminum duct piping and fittings, all the time

And the list goes on.

What does everyone think of the licensed plumber that installed that 4" cast iron that worked as a usable vent for that water heater that worked for nearly 80+ years???

That's one of our own you know.

There was no double-wall B vent back then, not even single wall galvanized piping that you saw that disintegrated in rapid speed given its conditions of water entering back through that cast iron pipe?

Why did it work for so many years without error?

Good questions that need to be answered.

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1703

· #8 · Feb 5, 2010

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:
Why did it work for so many years without error?

I wonder if it ever did work properly.

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TheMaster

· #9 · Feb 5, 2010

People are trying to make their homes more energy efficient and are sealing up all the cracks......thats all great but then the house cant breathe. Puts them at greater risk. Worse case scenario is the change all the doors,windows,add insulation and weather strip and caulk every opening and then leave the old furnace to fill the house full of deadly gas:thumbsup:

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Plumber Jim

· #10 · Feb 5, 2010

whenever is see venting that's not right no matter how long it is said to have worked I don't touch a thing till i get a signed contract to fix it so it is right with todays code. If someone dies it won't be on me.

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DUNBAR PLUMBING

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 7, 2010

Colgar said:
I wonder if it ever did work properly.

I believe it did until that turn in the chimney got clogged. I'm "assuming" but the water rolling out of the piping would indicate the bottom of that turn of direction.

Plumber Jim said:
whenever is see venting that's not right no matter how long it is said to have worked I don't touch a thing till i get a signed contract to fix it so it is right with todays code. If someone dies it won't be on me.

Very, very hard to close a sale at times in this fashion. This one played out the way it should, see video below.

TheMaster said:
People are trying to make their homes more energy efficient and are sealing up all the cracks......thats all great but then the house cant breathe. Puts them at greater risk. Worse case scenario is the change all the doors,windows,add insulation and weather strip and caulk every opening and then leave the old furnace to fill the house full of deadly gas:thumbsup:

That's exactly what these people did earlier in the year, and it could of been ugly if they really tightened that house up.

Here's what we did for the customer. They love the hot water as they said it hasn't been that consistently hot in years.

The water heater I believe is around 95'.

I damn near lost two days of my health because of this job. My body has bothered me ever since I did this job. I'm an old man. :blink:

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Miguel

· #12 · Feb 7, 2010

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:
I damn near lost two days of my health because of this job. My body has bothered me ever since I did this job. I'm an old man. :blink:

Suck it up old man!

This job can make you old before your time if you don't stay conditioned for it.

Good job, D! :thumbsup:
And thanks for the videos. Much better context than with pictures alone.

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Alan

· #13 · Feb 8, 2010

Just wondering on the electric w/h thermostat, you mentioned 120 F being the highest you're allowed to set it?

In our code book, it only specifies (i think) tub fillers, but I do remember specifically that it states water heater thermostat will not be considered an adequate means of temperature control. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what the code difference is.

Edit : love the videos BTW. Very cool.

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