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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a word to the wise......... if you ever have to make an insurance claim, be careful and watch the process VERY, VERY close.......

I flooded out some dumb ass from Burma this summer with a sump pump switch that failed to work...... it cost my insurance company 7k to dry out and mitigate his tri level home over memorial day weekend........

the owner was really pissed off and threatend to sue me for damages but it all worked out ok, -----or so I thought..:vs_whistle:.

it turned out that because of the holidays and everyone at my insurance company was out of town, I had to find a company to do this work fast...... so I had to sign some stuff saying I authorized them to do this work for me.......and basically I was also on the hook for the money if things went south---- My insurance company was ok with the company and they used them all the time....so I thought that all was well in the valley........

then due to some mix ups, this flood damage company was left hanging by the homeowner who would not sign off on the job........ they called me a few times asking for the funds and wanted me to find out what was going on....

Last week, I called liberty mutual to find out what was going on and they said their were waiting on a few bills from the homeowner .....??

and then she stated that once all the bills were tallied she was gonna cut the whole check to the homeowner and he was going to pay the flood damage guys......:surprise::surprise:

I just about crapped a brick when I heard this and she stated that was the normal way things were done.....:vs_shocked:

I lost my cool and told her that this guy wanted to sue me for damages and you got to be insane to hand some Burmese guy who has never had 1000 in his hands at one time in his whole life, a 7400 check and trust that he will keep his word :surprise: ...

I have seen this happen a few times before while working for flood damage companies where the homeowner gets a 15k check and thinks its his money and then goes on vacation knowing full well that they are screwing the contractors, and the flood damage guys never get paid....

Then Liberty claims that this is how its always been done and if the homeowner embezzles the money you will just have to sue them to force them to pay:surprise::vs_shocked:

I jumped up and down and told them I would be on the hook for the money and I would get sued if they did not correct this error and send the money directly to the flood damage people......

I also told them that whatever small bills this fellow came up with could be put on a separate check directly to him once he pulled his thumb out of his ass and signed off on everything......

So just keep this in mind if you do ever make a mistake and think your are insured and all is well......

Everything appears to be well for now.....
but I came very close to getting a good stiff screwing

...



 

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I had a $9K claim for a shower valve that leaked in the wall recently. My insurance covered all but my deductible. Since the GC was involved, the check was written to them.
Everybody is happy. Now, I'm going after the manufacturer. The bad part (tub shower valve) was manufactured by another firm, but it has their name on it so they are the responsible party. We are presently in the discovery stage, with me sending them the incriminating evidence. I have lots of photos and a video showing water spraying out of the valve. Can't wait to hear their offer.
 

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Plumbing since 1974
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Would enjoy knowing the mfr.

We all know that there are plenty of defects over the years. But, still, I like to keep track of stories. Just like bad health provider stories, but more tangible.
 

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Would enjoy knowing the mfr.

We all know that there are plenty of defects over the years. But, still, I like to keep track of stories. Just like bad health provider stories, but more tangible.
I am sure he would tell us if he could but he's in the middle of litigation so mum's the word.




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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am sure he would tell us if he could but he's in the middle of litigation so mum's the word.




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It was mostly my fault, this Burmese guy who could not speak worth a dam needed a special sump pump installed and his battery back up was also bad... and they were both tied together .

He claimed that he was going to get his own battery back up or so I thought.. .....he just stood there like deer in the headlights and showed no concern for his finished basement that I did not know about and it just went south from there..

I set the pump switch up at the height I thought would work best and moved on....... then in a few days it flooded him out......

this was a very strange situation with a tri-ilevel home with a 9 foot deep pit sump pump located out in the garage---- I never even went into the home to really get an understanding of what was going on... or I would have insisted on getting the battery back up myself......
....

So basically I set the switch about 3 inches too high in a 9 foot pit... my bad

The guy was pissed off, and I KNOW he would have cashed that check and had a good time with it....and basically stuck it to me......

He might be pissed off worse now cause he is only gonna get his hands on a few hundred dollars instead of a big pay day like was coming to him
In all honesty if they stayed in a hotel a few nights they should be compensated by the insurance company ....

but we all know the only people who get a big pay day anymore are the drug dealers who get into brawls resisting the police.... that all started 30 years ago with Rodney King..



https://photos.app.goo.gl/9tcfcgdXnW9CyABi6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AweQRGPPqyHnzZwj8
 

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Speaking of insurance yesterday had a call for a leaking toilet, the guy installed it himself, a mono piece in a tight space and one side no washer.


So I pulled it and the flange was too low, 95% of the time they are all too low. I was about to cut the ceiling below to re-pipe when the home owner handed me their insurance guy. He starts saying to me I'll pay your your service call and you are going to make me a nice report with pictures. I was like WTF? I said I work for the home owner not for you plus if you want a detailed report and pictures I'll be charging you an extra 3 hours for that work. I was starting to think what the hell was I getting into, the insurance thing was making me uneasy and he sounded like a hot head. It also felt like the insurance wasn't going to pay me more than the trip fee because he kept repeating you won't have to wait 30 days, I'll pay the service call. So I told him not really, so the woman said I'll pay him.


From what the woman of the house said and with some hints I think that the insurance was trying to have me point the finger at the builder of the house(10 year old house) so they would have him pay for all damages then sue him if they didn't pay. The insurance ordered me not to do anything.


Man 4 leaking toilets this week, 4 of them are war stories. I thought about it and I think I'm going to make some waivers if they don't want to have the flange redone to height or a toilet reset with a contaminated floor with urine and fecal matter. I'm also thinking of some special tools to redo the flanges without giving me a $hit show to cut up a closet underneath and giving me some miserable confined space to work in.
 

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Would enjoy knowing the mfr.

We all know that there are plenty of defects over the years. But, still, I like to keep track of stories. Just like bad health provider stories, but more tangible.
Titular manufacturer.
Restoration Hardware
Actual manufacturer:
Brasstech
The part is a pressure balanced shower inwall.
It was originally manufactured by Danfoss in Canada.
Some time ago, Danfoss was acquired by Grohe.
Then, it was spun off and Brasstech acquired the rights to the valve.
They sell it to a few manufacturers who need a relatively inexpensive PB valve.
Another PB valve that gets shopped around a lot is made by Zurn.
 

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Ha good one. Yes you are very logical, so what would you do, leave the toilet aside and hopefully the home owner pays you and not throw a fit? I have a feeling I'll be doing a lot of free toilet pulls.

Heck the code states we need to put a pan under the water heater and drain it to a floor drain. Old houses don't have floor drains anywhere near so we cap the pan. The Association made us some waivers but if I remember correctly I would still lose in court because I didn't follow code. So are we going to force the home owner to demolish his finished basement to run a floor drain for several thousands more?
Why put in a pan if you’re going to cap it? Sounds like a waste of material. There’s plenty of leak sensors on the market that will sound an alarm or alert a phone if there’s a leak. You can put one in the pan
 

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Why put in a pan if you’re going to cap it? Sounds like a waste of material. There’s plenty of leak sensors on the market that will sound an alarm or alert a phone if there’s a leak. You can put one in the pan
It's code to have a pan. If you don't put one you haven't used due diligence.
 

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Why put in a pan if you’re going to cap it? Sounds like a waste of material. There’s plenty of leak sensors on the market that will sound an alarm or alert a phone if there’s a leak. You can put one in the pan

It's code to have a pan. If you don't put one you haven't used due diligence.
You're trying to apply common sense to code requirements. I always tell people that up to code is not inherently equal to best practice.


For instance, many codes now require the base of the toilet to be caulked to the floor.

  • International Plumbing Code (2012 edition), Chapter 4, Section 405.5 states: Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed.
  • Uniform Plumbing Code (2009 edition), Chapter 4, Section 407.2 states: Where a fixture comes in contact with the wall or floor, the joint between the fixture and the wall or floor shall be made water-tight.
At our company we have chosen to caulk mostly around the toilet leaving a small gap at the tail. This allows water to leave and be noticed if the wax ring leaks but also allows the toilet to be firmly affixed to the floor and prevents most if not all water which may splash from a shower or tub from going under the toilet. There are exceptions to this like every rule, but largely this is the path we have chosen. Technically it's against code, but I wouldn't hesitate to nicely explain to any inspector why we do it that way.


Unfortunately codes, regulations, requirements, and any other laws for that matter can not be written so thoroughly as to cover every contingency. This is why the AHJ is given prosecutorial discretion.

Just like a police officer doesn't have to write you a ticket for speeding, they can just give you a warning or do nothing at all. The problem occurs when inspectors are idiots and can't figure out how to follow the "spirit of the law". Some inspectors refuse to let anything go that isn't to the letter of the law, whether that is the right choice or not.

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You're trying to apply common sense to code requirements. I always tell people that up to code is not inherently equal to best practice.




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That's how the association wants us to them if we can't drain them to a floor drain. That's using due diligence even though the pan will catch only a few drops before it spills over. I doubt there's any leniency or common sense, up till now all I've seen is by the book. So everything I do I try to do the best I can to minimize lawsuits or being dragged in for a complaint.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's code to have a pan. If you don't put one you haven't used due diligence.


I got one today we installed a heater
in a basement with a pan but no where to drain it to. I installed a male adaptor on the drain port and told the owner to hook a hose to it if it were
to ever leak and run it across the length of the basement to the sump pit...
I did the best I could for the guy and today we got to go change out that heater cause it leaked everywhere and he did not catch it in time or get himself a water alarm.......


I got another one where the pressure in the home was 120 psi.... the heater blew out under warranty and some other guys changed out the unit and put the new heater directly down into the imprint circle in their laminate flooring on the first floor......it fit perfectly into the spot and was about 1/4 inch sunk down.... Real smart......
THEY DID NOT INSTALL A PAN and guess what happenned......?? The new unit leaked and now they got 18,000 dollars of damage...new laminate flooring through out the first floor of home....

So I go out and install a new heater and cut off the standpipe on the slab and install a pan and pipe it into the condensation floor drain so this wont happen again.....

It is CODE to put heaters in pans in our state...I had to look it up for the homeowner and their insurance company. so now the insurance company is going after the dufus who did the last heater


That pan we install cost me 12 dollars :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

you got to use common sense and your brain when dealing with things that can come back on you...

and sometimes people who quote the code and go totally by the book come across like they are trying to make work for themselves...



.......
 

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When an inspector says to my guys, "I want to see it done this way", I've told them to analyze the situation and do one of two things. If they feel he's way off base and complying will cause a costly delay, they are to ask him/her to get out their code book and quote chapter and verse. Or, if they see that giving AHJ what they want to be inconsequential, then they are to do so.
If things get out of hand they are to get on the horn to a supervisor and let him deal with the situation. Personally, I have no problem going over their heads if I think they are asking for something that makes no sense.
My father's technique was to give them something that was an easy fix.
The inspector feels fulfilled by showing his knowledge and the old man's bone works its magic.
The first time he pulled that stunt in my presence, I couldn't understand what his motive was. A short lesson in human psychology set me straight.
Another example of the older I got, the smarter he got.
Devious fella my old man.
 

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When an inspector says to my guys, "I want to see it done this way", I've told them to analyze the situation and do one of two things. If they feel he's way off base and complying will cause a costly delay, they are to ask him/her to get out their code book and quote chapter and verse. Or, if they see that giving AHJ what they want to be inconsequential, then they are to do so.
If things get out of hand they are to get on the horn to a supervisor and let him deal with the situation. Personally, I have no problem going over their heads if I think they are asking for something that makes no sense.
My father's technique was to give them something that was an easy fix.
The inspector feels fulfilled by showing his knowledge and the old man's bone works its magic.
The first time he pulled that stunt in my presence, I couldn't understand what his motive was. A short lesson in human psychology set me straight.
Another example of the older I got, the smarter he got.
Devious fella my old man.
I was doing plumbing in a complete house raise and renovation and got friendly with the electrician who did that very same deal for the electrical inspector, except the inspector didnt even look too hard and just passed the whole house...the electrician just laughed and said " who knew"...
 

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I was doing plumbing in a complete house raise and renovation and got friendly with the electrician who did that very same deal for the electrical inspector, except the inspector didnt even look too hard and just passed the whole house...the electrician just laughed and said " who knew"...
My pops did know most of the inspectors in the cities he worked in and I think he knew which ones to use the trick on.
 

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When I was first in the business, I was on a job where the inspector was giving the electrician a hard time. The electrician was an old timer who knew his stuff. And, his boss
pretty much wrote the book. One day, his boss shows up on site and he gets an earful from his employee. He immediately blows his stack and storms off with blood in his eyes on his way to the building dept to rip the inspector's boss a new one.
having never experienced a face to face with a building official, I couldn't imagine what
the outcome would be. Well, the next time that inspector showed up on the job, his attitude was quite a bit more cooperative.
It was a lesson for me. If you know your are right and you figure if you don't do something you will subject yourself to more abuse down the road, going over the field guy's head may be your best option.
Now that I'm old and grizzled, when in the right and tired of a filed guy's BS, I throw caution to the wind. Knowing full well that discretion dictates one must pick one's fights, there's no hesitation. I'll get in his/her boss's grill at the drop of a hat.
My mantra is; "If it ain't in the book, it won't fly".
 

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Just a word to the wise......... if you ever have to make an insurance claim, be careful and watch the process VERY, VERY close.......

I flooded out some dumb ass from Burma this summer with a sump pump switch that failed to work...... it cost my insurance company 7k to dry out and mitigate his tri level home over memorial day weekend........

the owner was really pissed off and threatend to sue me for damages but it all worked out ok, -----or so I thought..:vs_whistle:.

it turned out that because of the holidays and everyone at my insurance company was out of town, I had to find a company to do this work fast...... so I had to sign some stuff saying I authorized them to do this work for me.......and basically I was also on the hook for the money if things went south---- My insurance company was ok with the company and they used them all the time....so I thought that all was well in the valley........

then due to some mix ups, this flood damage company was left hanging by the homeowner who would not sign off on the job........ they called me a few times asking for the funds and wanted me to find out what was going on....

Last week, I called liberty mutual to find out what was going on and they said their were waiting on a few bills from the homeowner .....??

and then she stated that once all the bills were tallied she was gonna cut the whole check to the homeowner and he was going to pay the flood damage guys......:surprise::surprise:

I just about crapped a brick when I heard this and she stated that was the normal way things were done.....:vs_shocked:

I lost my cool and told her that this guy wanted to sue me for damages and you got to be insane to hand some Burmese guy who has never had 1000 in his hands at one time in his whole life, a 7400 check and trust that he will keep his word :surprise: ...

I have seen this happen a few times before while working for flood damage companies where the homeowner gets a 15k check and thinks its his money and then goes on vacation knowing full well that they are screwing the contractors, and the flood damage guys never get paid....

Then Liberty claims that this is how its always been done and if the homeowner embezzles the money you will just have to sue them to force them to pay:surprise::vs_shocked:

I jumped up and down and told them I would be on the hook for the money and I would get sued if they did not correct this error and send the money directly to the flood damage people......

I also told them that whatever small bills this fellow came up with could be put on a separate check directly to him once he pulled his thumb out of his ass and signed off on everything......

So just keep this in mind if you do ever make a mistake and think your are insured and all is well......

Everything appears to be well for now.....
but I came very close to getting a good stiff screwing

...
Liberty mutual sucks for liability insuranc,they don't want to pay and only want your money,I dumped them yrs ago,make sure you get a good Insurance company that WILL pay if ever needed
 
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