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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I moved this topic from the other thread. The purpose of the post was to talk about why I think Ron feels the way he does, or why I think he has issues about being a moderator.

When I compare the way plumbers talk about each other in forums, in their advertising, in supply houses, and to their customers. I see this happening only with plumbers, with a very high percent of plumbers, and I always wondered why. Every time I go to a supply house, since I started my business 36 years ago, plumbers made derogatory comments about my company like:

"I heard about your company. You are the guys who run the soft copper on the ground underneath houses."

If we ever ran copper on the ground I don't know where, but I wonder what phenomena causes these types of statements. Why does almost every plumber think he is better than every other plumber, does better work, and thinks he is more honest? Why do I keep reading about one plumber calling another plumber a hack?

The first thing this forum needs is a new set of rules. Forums are a place where people are supposed to share experiences, ideas, and we should assume we are talking about plumbing and business. Only posts with positive thoughts and ideas should be allowed in the business threads. Any member who belittles or bashes another plumber should be banned immediately. All small talk should be in the chat room or miscellaneous threads.

This is how I think a moderator's duties should work. The moderator's first duty is to keep order and make sure members adhere to the rules. Any member who bashes another plumber should be banned immediately. The moderator should not warn the member in public, should not warn him at all, and should not tell members when, or why the member was banned because this goes beyond his duties and makes him look pompous.

I believe the moderators first duty is to keep order, second duty is to be a role model, and least important duty is to be a friend. You can be courteous and friendly, but you have a conflict when you are the moderator and you are taking sides in a heated debate. Your duty is to make sure members follow the rules and ban them regardless of whether or not you agree with their views.

The moderator should never argue with a member. You should never argue, period. You are the same as the boss of a company. When we have a problem with an employee we don't argue. We discuss the issue in a private room and when the employee does not come to terms, we fire him, but we never do this publicly and we never discuss what transpired with other employees.

The forum needs a role model. Members follow your lead. As they say, "crap flows downhill and it starts at the top." If you write a sarcastic post to a DIY then all members think this is okay. If you argue with a member then all members think this is okay. As you may be aware one employee's mouth can poison and sabotage an entire business. I immediately terminate an employee who has a poisoned mouth and lacks respect. The same is true for this forum. We have a lot of poisoned mouths. About half the bushel contains bad apples. We can't put more apples into the bushel because we know they will spoil, so I would rather dump the bushel and start fresh. The quality of members is far more important than the number of members.

I've been watching this forum for about two years and there are long periods when it is pathetic. I've seen weeks with almost no posts and months with no quality posts about business. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the belittling and bashing of members since I am sure many plumbers see this and will not join the forum, and many active members will not write a post in fear of being ridiculed and bashed.

NEW RULES

No member should be allowed to write a post unless he can substantiate his information with hard facts. As a moderator, ask for the facts, in private, and delete the post until facts are delivered.

Zero tolerance for belittling or bashing members. No warning. Just ban the member.

Members can only write posts with positive thoughts and positive ideas. When a member writes a post, other members cannot bash the ideas. Members are only allowed to question the idea or thought.

If you are going to be a moderator and you want to be successful you have to say what you mean and mean what you say. You can't do this if you want to be everyone's friend. I would rather be a better boss than compromise my business by being your friend. Write your rules and apply them with no emotions, as this is your duty to keep order, make the forum grow with good members, and make it productive for all members.

As a moderator, I would not get emotional and would kick out my best friend before he insults me by making me look like a bad moderator. I don't want the moderator job and don't have the time.

I wrote this because I am concerned about Ron. We got off to a bumpy start, but I saw straight through to the other side of his glass head. He just needs a little wax, polish, effective ideas, and he'll be a great moderator.

pclplumber

P. S. I'm all for making an improved forum. I hope I am not the only member (maybe a half member). If you can add some productive and positive ideas, then I welcome them. If can only think of something sarcastic, lets practice my proposed rules. You can even send me a private nasty email and I won't get upset, but please don't lower your self-esteem and insult members in this forum by limiting your posts to senseless bashing.
 

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Professional Bullshioter
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I like the rules as they are. I also like the "feel" of the forum as it is.

Over-moderation will lead to a short lived forum. Who is going to do all your proposed moderation? For free $$:blink:
 
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Some of your facts are wrong. This forum is not two years old and is in it's infancy. What we are experiencing is growing pains as the forum grows and accomodates larger types of personalities.

Ron is having a bad time now; however, it's not for us to 'think' for him. When the time comes, he can speak for himself.

Some of your points are valid and it is up to Nathan (& moderators) to work it out.

I've visited other forums and by far this is the best! :thumbup:
 

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I've been watching this forum for about two years and there are long periods when it is pathetic. I've seen weeks with almost no posts and months with no quality posts about business. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the belittling and bashing of members since I am sure many plumbers see this and will not join the forum, and many active members will not write a post in fear of being ridiculed and bashed.
:furious: Then why do you hang around? There must be something here that the other forums don't have or you would have no reason to lurk in the shadows.
 

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I have no other forums to copare this one to. I agree that there is a lot of negativity here. On any project or subject you ask 10 plumbers their opinion and you will get 10 different responses. I am a smart ass and enjoy bashing DIY's, but also understand they are potential customers or know a potential customer. I have a buddy that is a member of a pay forum ($50.00 per month...kinda rich for me) and I would guess it is moderated differently but don't know that for sure. Just some random thoughts running through my hyper-active brain.
 

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bash i can't resist.

Dear P C PLUMBER,

I realize as a general contractor in CA you would'nt understand how a real plumber thinks. That is one reason your proposed NEW rules wont work. Where do you work anyway?, BERKELY.....easy does it on the KOOLAID bro.


" I'm sorry"
 

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Master Plumber
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I am on another forum that has nothing to do with plumbing. Right now there are a couple of newbies on there stirring up trouble. Let me tell you what they are doing and you all can figure it out from there.

1. They came in with an attitude they are going to save the members of the forum from their own stupidity.

2. They tried to push their ideas on well established members of the forum without showing them any respect and while continually whining about how no one accepts their ideas. All of it is done in a condescending, pat-the-poor-little-offender-on-the-head manner.

3. They continually point out their own good points.

4. Then when a few forum members react in a predictable manner they start whining about how the forum is run, how it is moderated, etc. And then they once again offer all their "excellent" ideas on how to save the forum.

5. Some of their ideas are actually good. And a few people acknowledge that. But what most of the members miss is the big picture of what is going on.

You know, it's just like a job site. Imagine if an apprentice showed up on your job site doing this kind of thing. Would any of you have any respect for him? Would there be a significant push back? On that other forum the guys making the trouble aren't "apprentices". But in the context of that forum they are. Like this... if a 55 year old man who was a doctor for 20 years began working for you as an apprentice... his age and experience means squat in the context of what I am talking about. There is a hierarchy in the plumbing world. You can start at the bottom and gain respect very fast. Or you can do like the guys I am talking about, try to force your way up the hierarchy... and just flat out irritate people.

Figure it out from there people...
 

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Master Plumber
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I moved this topic from the other thread. The purpose of the post was to talk about why I think Ron feels the way he does, or why I think he has issues about being a moderator.

When I compare the way plumbers talk about each other in forums, in their advertising, in supply houses, and to their customers. I see this happening only with plumbers, with a very high percent of plumbers, and I always wondered why. Every time I go to a supply house, since I started my business 36 years ago, plumbers made derogatory comments about my company like:

"I heard about your company. You are the guys who run the soft copper on the ground underneath houses."

If we ever ran copper on the ground I don't know where, but I wonder what phenomena causes these types of statements. Why does almost every plumber think he is better than every other plumber, does better work, and thinks he is more honest? Why do I keep reading about one plumber calling another plumber a hack?

The first thing this forum needs is a new set of rules. Forums are a place where people are supposed to share experiences, ideas, and we should assume we are talking about plumbing and business. Only posts with positive thoughts and ideas should be allowed in the business threads. Any member who belittles or bashes another plumber should be banned immediately. All small talk should be in the chat room or miscellaneous threads.

This is how I think a moderator's duties should work. The moderator's first duty is to keep order and make sure members adhere to the rules. Any member who bashes another plumber should be banned immediately. The moderator should not warn the member in public, should not warn him at all, and should not tell members when, or why the member was banned because this goes beyond his duties and makes him look pompous.

I believe the moderators first duty is to keep order, second duty is to be a role model, and least important duty is to be a friend. You can be courteous and friendly, but you have a conflict when you are the moderator and you are taking sides in a heated debate. Your duty is to make sure members follow the rules and ban them regardless of whether or not you agree with their views.

The moderator should never argue with a member. You should never argue, period. You are the same as the boss of a company. When we have a problem with an employee we don't argue. We discuss the issue in a private room and when the employee does not come to terms, we fire him, but we never do this publicly and we never discuss what transpired with other employees.

The forum needs a role model. Members follow your lead. As they say, "crap flows downhill and it starts at the top." If you write a sarcastic post to a DIY then all members think this is okay. If you argue with a member then all members think this is okay. As you may be aware one employee's mouth can poison and sabotage an entire business. I immediately terminate an employee who has a poisoned mouth and lacks respect. The same is true for this forum. We have a lot of poisoned mouths. About half the bushel contains bad apples. We can't put more apples into the bushel because we know they will spoil, so I would rather dump the bushel and start fresh. The quality of members is far more important than the number of members.

I've been watching this forum for about two years and there are long periods when it is pathetic. I've seen weeks with almost no posts and months with no quality posts about business. I'm sure this has a lot to do with the belittling and bashing of members since I am sure many plumbers see this and will not join the forum, and many active members will not write a post in fear of being ridiculed and bashed.

NEW RULES

No member should be allowed to write a post unless he can substantiate his information with hard facts. As a moderator, ask for the facts, in private, and delete the post until facts are delivered.

Zero tolerance for belittling or bashing members. No warning. Just ban the member.

Members can only write posts with positive thoughts and positive ideas. When a member writes a post, other members cannot bash the ideas. Members are only allowed to question the idea or thought.

If you are going to be a moderator and you want to be successful you have to say what you mean and mean what you say. You can't do this if you want to be everyone's friend. I would rather be a better boss than compromise my business by being your friend. Write your rules and apply them with no emotions, as this is your duty to keep order, make the forum grow with good members, and make it productive for all members.

As a moderator, I would not get emotional and would kick out my best friend before he insults me by making me look like a bad moderator. I don't want the moderator job and don't have the time.

I wrote this because I am concerned about Ron. We got off to a bumpy start, but I saw straight through to the other side of his glass head. He just needs a little wax, polish, effective ideas, and he'll be a great moderator.

pclplumber

P. S. I'm all for making an improved forum. I hope I am not the only member (maybe a half member). If you can add some productive and positive ideas, then I welcome them. If can only think of something sarcastic, lets practice my proposed rules. You can even send me a private nasty email and I won't get upset, but please don't lower your self-esteem and insult members in this forum by limiting your posts to senseless bashing.
Just establishing a record before it gets edited more (or deleted).
 

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Plumbing and Gas SCO
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Your version of a forum has flaws. Don't post anything but happy thought?
Moderators not allowed to build relationships?
Mod has a glass head?
Only hard fact driven posts?

ATTICA!
ATTICA!


pcplumber, there is already a good set of rules in place here. However, you are more than welcome to set up your own forum if you like elsewhere. Other members have in the past, just a little hard to find them after a while.
 

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Pcplumber, we are what we are. If you don't like it then you don't have to be here. I enjoy the stabs once in a while at the supply house and I sure don't mind them here. You're an individual, you know how you're running your business. If you take that sort of thing personal then your'e in the wrong business.
I vote to keep things just the way they are, no changes needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So far, nodoby beat me to death

So far, all the answers are great. I can't argue with you. Nobody beat me up too bad. And I can go to work today without thinking about a come-back. I expected a 'Thread Of Terror' by now. I'm having a barbecue at my shop today. You are all welcome to stop by after 3 pm and have a few carne asadas, steaks, hot dogs, lemonade, & sodas. Sorry, no alcohol. People tend to say bad things about the boss when they are tipsy.
 

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Master Plumber
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So far, all the answers are great. I can't argue with you. Nobody beat me up too bad. And I can go to work today without thinking about a come-back. I expected a 'Thread Of Terror' by now. I'm having a barbecue at my shop today. You are all welcome to stop by after 3 pm and have a few carne asadas, steaks, hot dogs, lemonade, & sodas. Sorry, no alcohol. People tend to say bad things about the boss when they are tipsy.
Have a good day.

BTW, ask yourself what that whooshing sound was.
 

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When I compare the way plumbers talk about each other in forums, in their advertising, in supply houses, and to their customers. I see this happening only with plumbers, with a very high percent of plumbers, and I always wondered why. Every time I go to a supply house, since I started my business 36 years ago, plumbers made derogatory comments about my company like:

"I heard about your company. You are the guys who run the soft copper on the ground underneath houses."

If we ever ran copper on the ground I don't know where, but I wonder what phenomena causes these types of statements. Why does almost every plumber think he is better than every other plumber, does better work, and thinks he is more honest? Why do I keep reading about one plumber calling another plumber a hack?
If I ever heard this I would be far less concerned with rules of a forum, sharing business manuals & software, posting under multiple identities etc. I would be very interested in getting out in the field a little more often and seeing what exactly my guys in the field are doing qualitywise...:whistling2:

Just my $0.02...
 

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Dear P C PLUMBER,

I realize as a general contractor in CA you would'nt understand how a real plumber thinks. That is one reason your proposed NEW rules wont work. Where do you work anyway?, BERKELY.....easy does it on the KOOLAID bro.

There are a lot of us like Leonard who are plumbers first and have a GC license as a secondary license. It gives you a lot of latitude to do things you cannot do without a GC license. While I have never been to Leonard's shop I know those who have and he is what he says he is.

Mark
 

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So far, all the answers are great. I can't argue with you. Nobody beat me up too bad. And I can go to work today without thinking about a come-back. I expected a 'Thread Of Terror' by now. I'm having a barbecue at my shop today. You are all welcome to stop by after 3 pm and have a few carne asadas, steaks, hot dogs, lemonade, & sodas. Sorry, no alcohol. People tend to say bad things about the boss when they are tipsy.
I'm not trying to bash you, but the gut feeling I get from you is you enjoy the "threads of terror". Maybe not enjoy, but feed off of a little bit:whistling2:.
 

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Professional Bullshioter
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pcplumber,
I had some time this afternoon to sit down and fully read your original post. After wading through it I have come to the conclusion that.....

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You have entirely too much time on your hands to think about trivial crap:blink: Reading that novel felt very similar to reading the una-bomber manifesto. Lighten up dude. Go write a thesis on something that people care about.

If you want new business topics. Hit the New Post button and let it fly.
If you don't like somebodies posting style. Put em on your ignore list.
Don't write a "How I would fix the Board" thread.

Love,
ILPlumber
 

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Love,
ILPlumber[/quote]


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Why in the world do I choose to eat or drink ANYTHING when I'm checking out this forum!!!!! It always ends up on the monitor or keyboard from spitting it out laughing!!!!!

Love,
ILPlumber......absolutely hilarious!!!!:laughing::laughing:
 
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