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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Discussion Starter #1
There's a loaded question that has a million meanings, and given the thread starter's point of view, I'm sure it doesn't need much explanation.



Should we all think we're plumbers since we can push-fit, crimp, glue-connect everything that we don't need a license anymore?


Remember, someone has designed plumbing where DIY'rs can easily do our job now, and how can you complain when they do it at this point? It literally is at the point now where we might just be in the same category as drywallers, painters. Not many tools needed.
 

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i think you just like starting fights...

Being a 'professional' depends 100% on yourself, and how you present yourself and perform your trade.
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Discussion Starter #3
i think you just like starting fights...

Being a 'professional' depends 100% on yourself, and how you present yourself and perform your trade.



Now now, let's not be hastey.


Please tell me why tomorrow when I install a RO system that all I need is a screwdriver, drill bit, and a crescent wrench.

That system underneath that sink will be sloppy looking just like every one of them is made to be.


I can be a professional paper thrower for the local newspaper, but I'm performing my trade just like the next guy.


Truth is, everything I've stated is true, it's not fiction.


Years ago homeowners didn't set up threading tools and cut galvanized water lines for themselves, fix their water lines.

Now, they sharkbite and run with their legal garden hose. :no:


I like plumbing when it's hard, like my arteries to my heart. I like it when less people can do my job.
 

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Always Something
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Damn, I was hoping this was about how to line up and drill perfect holes in masonry or an easier way to do superman work. ya know, in an attic up against the roof pitch stuffed inbetween the damn roofers nails and dirty fiberglass insulation sweating that 90 on above the plate. For what it's worth, I charge an obsurd amount of money to do that. i didn't when I first got on my own, but now...I know how to do it...time to cash in on it.

Get this....I bid a tankless and as I show up I see another guy leaving. i know the guy and he buys shark bites by the case...no ***** I seen him carrying them out.

So I go look at the place...give my 02 and type up a bid. This is the funny part. under the scope of work section i make a little side note giving very brief detail of push on connectors and how box stores sell them and they are legal in CA for in wall use. Long story short i told the client that the guy b4 me won't solder anymore and only uses SB...which is 100% truth. Sent it off that night, checked email in the morning...and I got it. But I did include in a term "I will in under no circumstances use any kind of push on connecting device...blah blah..."

It was a first for me to mention anything like this in a bid...I have a feeling I may stick with it.
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Discussion Starter #5
That's a good logic to follow as well.


Everything I'm doing on this RO system is indeed a lowered pressure, like 40 pounds but I can't stand that everything is so eaaaaaazy peeaaaaazy japaneeezy under the sink.


Red tube goes here
Blue tube goes there
Yellow tube goes there
Black tube has to go there

Turn the water on, I gotta run!


Does everyone know why the only reason RO systems are not installed by the homeowner most times? They don't know or want to drill that crucial first step, the hole in the sink for the faucet.

Mine tomorrow is on a high end corian top. I figure I'm going to have to buy one of those carbide round hole saw bits to get through corian. I got a step drill bit but it'll dull it completely.

If that hole already existed? Homeowner would be putting this in, not me. That's why the system is already there.


Look at the new stainless steel flex supply line....my grandma could replace her toilet supply with the ease of that installation practice. At least with the chrome risers, you had to know which end to connect first. ????
 

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While it is true that all of these newer materials are easy to install, we all know that the correct sizing calculations for gpm, velocity, and pressure (in the case of pex) is not something a homeowner cares about.

It's also said that PVC is just gluing pipes together. That's all well and good, but what about DFU loads, venting principles and correct termination and too many other things to mention.

My long drawn out point is that we as professionals have to design,engineer, install and maintain these systems, regardless of materials. All while making it into a work of art.

Find a drywaller that says that!!!
 

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Master Plumber
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I see protectionism as grossly immoral and anti-freedom. It IS anti-freedom. That cannot be honestly denied. Whether you think anti-freedom is immoral or not is up to you but I know where I stand on it.

Other than that, carry on.
 

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Its going to become a NON license thing in the future, well there will be a "corporation" that holds the license and then 20k+ workers....

If you think I am bsing you, take a look around at HOW MANY small shops are being bought up by mr rooters and franchises,

Unless all you OLD MEN PLUMBERS start being NICE to the young , its all over....

Don't believe me?

Bookmark this thread and bump it in 5 years, :)

I know many people think I am just some stupid dude, But I am obsessed with this industry and have TONS of data on it,

The PROBLEM:

no seniors are trying to recruit and train young guys and that's FORCING big companies to make things like read and blue pex......DUH......

You better start training and LICENSING your guys ALL of them before Mr rooter and the boys take over.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We already got what you're saying. This big jobs down in Lexington and Louisville?

They hire a bunch of illegals to come in and "Plumb" yes plumb these buildings with pex piping like they are running wire, they get it done in super speed along with that flexible gas piping that's in the same category. SPEED


40 years ago the average joe did not go out and work on their plumbing, not to the extent they do today. That's a fact because they didn't have what exists in rubber couplings, push together piping systems.

Look at my license in Ohio; totally useless, has no value at this point because everyone sits under one license, contractor's license. You're grouped into all the trades and nobody is special. I like being special.
 

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Yup, here to and in most places....

WHY do you think so many PLUMBERS are out of work?

The second to last shop I worked in employeed 10+ "illegals" and had them running pvc all day long at $75 a day and two guys would rough all the pvs from basement to attic in a 3bath in one day.

YUP all for $150........aND YEA he had a license,........doent mean he has to do the work.......

If the failed any inspection who cares, they would send the guy bak, I mean they were only paying them to run pvc not plumb.

And that the thing, if you stay current with trade magazones you'll see the trends as well.

Most A/C units now are being shipped with the freon in them....yup......just release a valve and the system is charged.......makes it so you dont need that HVAC guy.

If you think this will not become an automated industry just look around at all your buddies here on the forums and in real life and ask them where their job is.....

Yea, keep installing pex, keep not showing the young guys........



We already got what you're saying. This big jobs down in Lexington and Louisville?

They hire a bunch of illegals to come in and "Plumb" yes plumb these buildings with pex piping like they are running wire, they get it done in super speed along with that flexible gas piping that's in the same category. SPEED


40 years ago the average joe did not go out and work on their plumbing, not to the extent they do today. That's a fact because they didn't have what exists in rubber couplings, push together piping systems.

Look at my license in Ohio; totally useless, has no value at this point because everyone sits under one license, contractor's license. You're grouped into all the trades and nobody is special. I like being special.
 

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God bless you *******. I was at a Home Depot yesterday (not for plumbing stuff) and just happened to be walking down the plumbing aisle (to see if indeed they had pulled Zurn PEX - and yes they did, now have QESTPEX! - ACK!) At any rate, there was the ever helpful employee explaining to an older couple about the wonderful Shark Bite product that they can use to fix their problem. Man, I wanted SO BAD to butt in and SAY SOMETHING! Now that I've had awhile to think about it, I probably should have.
 

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i may have enjoyed happy hour a bit too much tonight, but here it goes.
i don't give a rats ass how many time life books the average homeowner owns. and i don't care how many episodes of sweat equity get aired. and i surely don't fear the onslaught of john doe handyman. ive put my time in, and i have more lessons to learn. but i have spent too much of my life learning my vocation to worry if john q. dingleberry homeowner can go to blowes and buy a pex tool. yeah some of the tech has made some of the processes user friendly. but when push comes to shove, i'll be there. when the building valve won't shut off i'll be there. every time the average homeowner see's an episode of flip that house and gets geared up, and sticks thier uneducated foot in the preverbial bear trap, i'll be there. diy i hope is a fad. i have seen too much of it go south. we have a responsibity to the public to " protect the health of the nation". i try not to take too many things in life to heart. but that one i'll fight for.
 

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i may have enjoyed happy hour a bit too much tonight, but here it goes.
i don't give a rats ass how many time life books the average homeowner owns. and i don't care how many episodes of sweat equity get aired. and i surely don't fear the onslaught of john doe handyman. ive put my time in, and i have more lessons to learn. but i have spent too much of my life learning my vocation to worry if john q. dingleberry homeowner can go to blowes and buy a pex tool. yeah some of the tech has made some of the processes user friendly. but when push comes to shove, i'll be there. when the building valve won't shut off i'll be there. every time the average homeowner see's an episode of flip that house and gets geared up, and sticks thier uneducated foot in the preverbial bear trap, i'll be there. diy i hope is a fad. i have seen too much of it go south. we have a responsibity to the public to " protect the health of the nation". i try not to take too many things in life to heart. but that one i'll fight for.
I will drink to that !!!!

God Bless you man!!!
 

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[
quote=*******;27307]
If you think I am bsing you, take a look around at HOW MANY small shops are being bought up by mr rooters and franchises,
Some of the original owners are buying them back up after the franchises screw it up. It was in PM Magazine about 6 mos. ago.

Unless all you OLD MEN PLUMBERS start being NICE to the young , its all over....
In what way 'be nice.' Are todays young anymore fragile than the plumber apprentice of yesteryear?

The PROBLEM: no seniors are trying to recruit and train young guys
Bullsh*t! Young guys want to work in the A/C all day playing with computers and make six figures a year. It's not the recruitment, most young don't want to work in the trades.

and that's FORCING big companies to make things like read and blue pex......DUH......
I agree. Labor shortage has created the need for simpler installations.

You better start training and LICENSING your guys ALL of them before Mr rooter and the boys take over.
[/QUOTE]

Funny you mention Mr. Rooter, they have called our office no less than 20 times in the past 60 days and sent a letter. After asking to be put on the do not call list, another Mr. Rooter calls and I let him have it. I wouldn't be a Mr. Rooter if you paid me. Click! Another franchise ARS, they have at least 10-15 vans sitting idle everyday parked along the side of their building.

Have faith ******* - the old timers are learning the new tricks. Even my husband is willing to learn touchy/feely sales techniques to increase the bottom line. He knows when to give a pat on the back and when a swift kick in the pants is needed. Our guys respect him. Don't ever count those who came before you out - they are tough (and not all are hardheaded)!
 

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No, I am not counted anyone out , but contrary to popular belief I really did work in many shops for over 17 years, and met some well respected people, and I really do have a clue, but acting the way I do and then watching grown men take aim at me and call me names is more amusing......and more fun, and starts better conversations with all these shy folks that usually troll till I come around :)

No young men are not more fragile nor was I when I was a kid, but when a foreman told me "you better cut that next pipe faster and straighter or I am going to shove it up your as s " then yea.

Listen, I know many people here, on Ridgid , just think I am some young moron that "fell out of the trade", fine, I could careless, what anyone thinks, But Let me tell you, I have been watching the industry falling apart day by day........thats the end result, and its just to bad..........

If you want we can compare data just to prove points...but we all know inside that this industry is NOT what it used to be , its overrun by laziness and cooperate greed.
 

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I don't doubt your experience or love of the industry. You want change and you want it yesterday. So do a lot of us.

However, the way you (not literally you!) deal with people is different based on their age and experience.

Ex.: I'm guessing you're close to 35. You can hang with the 20 something crowd, but the 21 year old thinks your trying to hard to be cool.

The 30-40 crowd catch all your drifts and they are there with you dude.

The 50-60 crowd - they aren't necessarily appreciating the dude and buddy thing. They are a little put off.

If you are addressing the 40+ crowd and being pushy, this can be taken as a sign of disrespect. This group will push back and push back hard. If they are given respect, in time they will respect back. This generation believes elders are given respect and young people earn it.

Right now, you do know a lot. You track numbers, trends, read a lot etc.; however, you are young and will look back and realize you don't know as much as you thought you did. Every year, people like you get wiser and wiser. And one day you will be a wise older man. No short cuts, it takes years to acquire.

You have posted you have worked for some real SOBs. Not all old timers are this way. Many will give an apprentice the shirt off his back.
 
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