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Answer the Question

  • Yes - That's why Thermal Expansion is required

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No - Explain why not

    Votes: 12 66.7%
  • Yes - Same afforded protection

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No - One check isn't two checks

    Votes: 6 33.3%

Does (in code terms) a PRV substitute equally as replacement for a Dual Check Valve?

6K views 27 replies 14 participants last post by  DUNBAR PLUMBING 
#1 · (Edited)
Is it overkill to install a Pressure Reducing Valve AND and a Dual Check Valve in the same line?


Or can the Dual Check be removed, the Pressure Reducing Valve installed in place of it.


Given that some homes are required Dual Checks by authorization of local backflow prevention programs.


Is this a correct substitute.

I understand most check valves are dual, but decipher where it reasons both devices on the same line.
 
#5 ·
If you are installing a Reduced Pressure Principal Device at the same location as an existing dual check (way overkill) the dual check would be redundant (not needed).

Mark
 
#20 ·
True Matt, in backflow class we were taught that RPZ's and DC's are required to be able to be tested and re-certified 'in-line'. Repaired also as you state. That is also why devices cannot be sold w/o (2) ball valves. Must be ball valves, not gates anymore.
 
#17 ·
Chicago will not recognize that as a certifiable device because it lacks a port to isolate one check from the other for testing on both the inlet and outlet side.

As for the question in the poll, a PRV is not a backflow preventer, and can't be used as such, so it would really depend on what the local code is looking for as protection to the cities water main.
 
#15 ·
I understand that never will a PRV be the suggestion of protection in backflow means,


I'm saying if I enter a home, residential service, and a customer has high water pressure.

Upon inspection I find a non-testable Wilkins 70 dual check valve assembly. Probably a requirement at the time of construction of the home.


Since I know, depending on what pressure reducing valve I install (thermal bypass not)...

is it mandatory to leave that dual check in, install the pressure reducing valve and now have 3 types of components (technically speaking) working as a check valve in that main line.

I have a customer that in order to put in the pressure reducing valve along with gauges to measure incoming and outgoing, the dual check valve's elimination makes easy work of the task.

If no, then I have to build a myriad of piping that allows to work in such a small confined area, and it will be time consuming.

I'm all about doing it right, to code...but where this home is located, they didn't even require thermal expansion protection when the dual check was installed, which can create all kinds of issues above 60psi and 120 degree water from a heating device.

This would not be inspected, and rarely do I see the requirement for dual checks on residential applications, only commercial where slight degree hazard applies.

So....it was an overkill design, even though I truly agree it is warranted, given back at the time where there were no anti-siphon hose bibbs to speak of.

At least they was thinking ahead of the game, and the neighborhood would be of the possibility where sprinkler systems would be a possibility.

That usually dictates with income levels and housing costs usually.
 
#24 ·
Plumber666:laughing: 1 post :laughing: Hey Brother I am rootin for ya :thumbsup:
 
#27 ·
Yes, unless the PRV has an integral bypass and pressure on the supply side is low enough to allow the pressure buildup from thermal expansion to return to the supply side through the bypass.
 
#28 ·
A Watts N55BU2 only opens up at 135psi, and that's only if the pressure doesn't match or is higher than the pressure pushing back.


I tell customers you cannot rely on the thermal expansion bypass when the pressure is that high. Something bad will come of that.


That's where the thermal expansion tank is golden; it can absorb as little as 1/2 pound of thermal expansion without loss of water through the system, or jacking pressure up beyond a preset setting of the prv.


That's what the whole purpose of the PRV is supposed to provide; not to exceed past it's predetermined setting.

I replace thermal expansion tanks weekly. Money in the bank.
 
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