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Discussion Starter #3
I would like to add that, in my opinion, code does not cover everything.I
think that the installer or the inspector of a potable water system should
be able to override the engineer of said system when it comes to matters of public safety.
 

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I would like to add that, in my opinion, code does not cover everything.I
think that the installer or the inspector of a potable water system should
be able to override the engineer of said system when it comes to matters of public safety.
Depends on the code.

Got an example?
 

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Every plumber in every state should be certified and licensed in backflow testing, namely for the knowledge base involving backflow hazards along with cross-connections.


Most think that all positive flow systems are one way, and it simply is not true.



Cross-connections, some of them are very hard for even the most knowledgeable plumbers to believe. That doesn't mean they don't happen.


Been a licensed backflow tester in KY for 10 years now and I went after that license mainly for knowledge base.


:thumbsup:
 

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Every plumber in every state should be certified and licensed in backflow testing, namely for the knowledge base involving backflow hazards along with cross-connections.


Most think that all positive flow systems are one way, and it simply is not true.



Cross-connections, some of them are very hard for even the most knowledgeable plumbers to believe. That doesn't mean they don't happen.


Been a licensed backflow tester in KY for 10 years now and I went after that license mainly for knowledge base.


:thumbsup:
I agree 100%. I got my license through USC back in the early 90s as more of an extra niche others were not doing. It didn't take long before I was seeing possible scenarios of cross connection in my sleep.

Mark
 

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I have a hotel I am working on in the Everglades right now. The heaters had a watts recirc pump that was installed wrong. When they installed it they flipped the direction of flow and one entire section of the hotel was being fed by a 1/2 line. When I figured out the problem and fixed it one of the booster heaters was so infested with rust from running backwards, It had to be thrown away and replaced. The owners of the hotel paid huge money to Culligan last year to install a huge filter because of the brown color in the water. Here it was the heaters causing it from running in reverse. They thought it was the color of the City water.
 

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I was never certified in backflow testing. Since there was not enough work to justify the license in the areas I lived I didn't see the point.

Now y'all have me curious. What is a typical cross connection scenario that the average plumber might miss? By average I mean an otherwise decent plumber, not a hack, who may not have educated himself beyond what the plumbing trade teaches.
 

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I was never certified in backflow testing. Since there was not enough work to justify the license in the areas I lived I didn't see the point.

Now y'all have me curious. What is a typical cross connection scenario that the average plumber might miss? By average I mean an otherwise decent plumber, not a hack, who may not have educated himself beyond what the plumbing trade teaches.



Washing machine hose connected to a laundry tub faucet laying in the tub. Primarily used as an extension.

Hose connected to that same laundry tub faucet with both hot and cold mixed while on, turned off at the end of the hose. Anything that is in the walls of most hoses *mainly lead* can reverse back given the pliability of the hose allowing increase and reduction of pressure.


Pressure washer hooked to a hose bibb with no vaccum breaker/anti-siphon device. If a chemical feed into the pressure washer, opposing pressures could move pressure back into main with chemical exposure to the potable water system.

Those handheld showers that are push-fit to the tub spout and left laying in the tub.


Malfunctioning pull out spray on a kitchen sink faucet left in the sink to minimize sounds of dripping when in disrepair. (I've seen that before in a stack of dirty dishes, submerged. :no:)


There's tons of them out there, one that can be truly targeted is bidet toilet seats with the wand down inside the toilet, no backflow protection whatsoever.

A blow-up sack or those rubber drain bladders used for forcing water to remove clogs are another device that can easily create a cross-connection between potable and a questionable source of liquid/gas/steam or other known product of unsafe properties.
 

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when i attended trade school we were told a story about a guy that was watering his lawn with one of those ferilizers that attaches to the end of the hose.

this was before backflow prevention was an issue.

apparently he put the hose down to get a glass of water from inside the house.

during the time it took him to go from the lawn to the ks there was a fire in that area of the city and the fire dept pulled a vaccum (i've done this with a 840 pumper) on the main and sucked the fertilizer into the potable water line.

the poor bugger never saw it coming. poured himself a glass of ferilizer and died.

i might be wrong but this was the first case involving this type of scenario. this case also started the whole backflow prevention protection.

Vince
 

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here we have water and new estates treated sewer water(recycled) its meant to be installed in lilac pipes with special bib taps however its same size as normal pipe so now you have diys cross connecting town and recycled water. a case occured where the water boards own plumbers cross connected a drinking fountain at the treatment plant and 40 workers went down sick. so if there plumbers cant stop it what hope for others

another thing is water boards are making commercial and industrial users install backflow valves. yes great idea ive yet to go back and test any despite sending notes with details explaining 12mth checks. its just a gaint joke i guess if something happens the boards can duck shove back to the owners
 

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when i attended trade school we were told a story about a guy that was watering his lawn with one of those ferilizers that attaches to the end of the hose.

this was before backflow prevention was an issue.

apparently he put the hose down to get a glass of water from inside the house.

during the time it took him to go from the lawn to the ks there was a fire in that area of the city and the fire dept pulled a vaccum (i've done this with a 840 pumper) on the main and sucked the fertilizer into the potable water line.

the poor bugger never saw it coming. poured himself a glass of ferilizer and died.

i might be wrong but this was the first case involving this type of scenario. this case also started the whole backflow prevention protection.

Vince

That's true, and that story has another story tied to it....in similar fashion.


Somehow an entire subdivision had to be repiped as a result due to contamination.


I'll try to find the case histories to post and show everyone.
 

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I think I've got the ultimate cross connection. Water company comes and marks out water main. We dig and expose it and run our service to it while they tap the main. Get everything hooked up, turn the water and and we have no pressure but it sure does smell bad.
Want to guess what they did?
 

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I think I've got the ultimate cross connection. Water company comes and marks out water main. We dig and expose it and run our service to it while they tap the main. Get everything hooked up, turn the water and and we have no pressure but it sure does smell bad.
Want to guess what they did?
:blink::blink::blink::blink:

Vince
 

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At least they didn't have you tap into a force main:laughing:

I think I've got the ultimate cross connection. Water company comes and marks out water main. We dig and expose it and run our service to it while they tap the main. Get everything hooked up, turn the water and and we have no pressure but it sure does smell bad.
Want to guess what they did?
 

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I saw a case where a self proclaimed well driller drove a sand point through a steel septic tank. Couldn't get a safe coliform sample. Go figure.
 

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*&@# happens

but when it happens in your drinking water, it is not funny!

The below story is a hoot. Happened here about 18 months ago. And notice that the water district did not want to call it a cross-connection problem. The want to call it a mis-connection. The entire building was simply connected to the recycled water supply, instead of being connected to the potable main.

http://www.otaywater.gov/owd/pages/board/minutes/070820 Special.pdf
 
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