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Discussion Starter #1
Had a guy from the state come in for a visit yesterday. His job is to assess trade competencies for the state and apply them to the various trade classes. He wanted my input as to whether or not we should be using the PHCC as the base for testing and qualifications. Normally I would have gone off on my usual rant about the worthless bastards but I thought I might be better to show some restraint and be non-committal on the issue. So anyway, what do you guys think? If someone were to come up with a standardized skill set for plumbers, should it be the PHCC? or should we come up with our own criteria? I know the PHCC is supposed to be the organization that represents us, but in my opinion it has been years since that has been true.
 

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I aint CPV see in it?
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Dont know too much about the PHCC. they did invite me to a meet and greet here last week. But, I would rather give that kind of money to ME. Non-the-less, love the new sig NH!
 

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Dont know too much about the PHCC. they did invite me to a meet and greet here last week. But, I would rather give that kind of money to ME. Non-the-less, love the new sig NH!
I've been a PHCC member for a while now and I can tell you this, I have gotten tons of useful information from them and multiple discounts on things like insurance, gas etc. I just did a 32 hours code class last winter, great class sponsored by the PHCC!
I like the networking with other professionals and they do offer a great deal for the price. I have no problem paying, it's only 150 bucks a quarter out of my pocket.
Should PHCC members set the standard? I don't see why not, never met a more professional bunch in all my years plumbing. Sure, I say yes.:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
They must be better organized where you are. Around here they are pretty much a money grubbing useless bunch that spends all it's time selling code books and sucking up to the manufacturers. I was a member for years but when they refused to back certain legislation (too long a story to get into) I gave up on them. Still, nation wide perhaps they do better.
 

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I... I have no problem paying, it's only 150 bucks a quarter out of my pocket.
They quoted me 1500/year and there's only one other plumber member. I wrote them back and offered 100/year, but got no response.
 

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They quoted me 1500/year and there's only one other plumber member. I wrote them back and offered 100/year, but got no response.
I belong to the Minnesota and the National PHCC both. The fee's are charged by your gross income per year, they are scheduled fee's. I've never once had them bother me with trying to sell books etc.
I'm a small company so I don't pay as much as the bigger ones do. Like everything else some will like them and some won't. I find it very useful to be part of such a fine organization.:thumbsup:
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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They've on more than one occaision hustled me like a jehovah's witness.

Usually this is dictated by money and what they stand to gain by.


Good organization but I went from wanting to be a part of many organizations to being a hermit and fending for myself. I've been told it's a good ole boys club and I clash with that often.


It is a good function for the industry, just cannot invest in something they base fees on how well I do. That's just wrong.
 

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You are either born into the good ole boys club - or it will cost you a fortune to believe you are one of the good ole boys.

Old money and new money don't mix.

and neither do the good ole boys.
 

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Seriously, what better to base plumbing service standards on than the PHCC plumbers? Should we base them on the lone recluse plumber who *****es about everything, wears rags to work and doesn't give a sh*t about anything or anyone, or should we hold the standards to a higher level?
I have never endorsed the PHCC on this message board and never felt the need to do so. Yet I am a proud member and I know that others here are too.
They are not a money hungry organization, far from it. They work extremely hard for ALL our benefit even if you're not a member so please stop the bad mouthing.
:)
 

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www.DunbarPlumbing.com
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Seriously, what better to base plumbing service standards on than the PHCC plumbers? Should we base them on the lone recluse plumber who *****es about everything, wears rags to work and doesn't give a sh*t about anything or anyone, or should we hold the standards to a higher level?
I have never endorsed the PHCC on this message board and never felt the need to do so. Yet I am a proud member and I know that others here are too.
They are not a money hungry organization, far from it. They work extremely hard for ALL our benefit even if you're not a member so please stop the bad mouthing.
:)


LOL! :laughing:


Thanks for the proud endorsement, and I'm right on target if that's the perception.

You're learning, danielson.

Do us all a favor and have them give us one free year's membership to convince us it's worth the "standard" you're implying it to be.

ROFL!!!

If you only knew how easy it is to trip wires with you and send you off in a tizzy.


Write that on your wall buddy! pen.gif
 

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I belong to the PHCC-GLAA which automatically gets you into the State and Nation PHCC. I have not had an employee since I sold my shop 10-years ago and it still costs me $1,980 per year. I'm about at the point I feel I should spend my money elsewhere.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Note that I am not necessarily bashing them on a national level. All the run in's I have had are at the state level and the majority of those are because the state president is a putz. However, my original question still stands. Do you think that the PHCC should be the governing body for apprentice curriculum and testing? If not, then who?
 

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I was a member of my local chapter and slated to become the vice president. Around that time the PHCC was advocating the separation of med gas/vacuum piping from our existing master plumber's licenses without grandfathering it in. Keep in mind that a plumber could braze and install PVC vacuum systems up to this time. So all of a sudden, we became un-qualified to install these systems without first spending $3,200.00 and 32 hours of our time to train on brazing.

I saw this coming and immediately started asking questions and going to the state leglislature demanding a reason as to why I am inderqualified to install and maintain these systems. I was told that the PHCC was endorsing this bill.

How can the PHCC tout the fact that they are helping small business when they just cut our throats?

Now, I'm not bit**ing about the fact that a separate license was issued, that's fine. But to take something away without at least giving us a chance to take the test? Absolute Bu****it.

I expected the PHCC to step up and go to bat for its members, many of them small businesses that service these types of systems. I was mistaken.

I regret very little in my life......spending almost $1,000.00 in dues and managing their trade show is a big one though.
 

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Oh yeah, back to the OP. Depends on the materials that they offer. I personally always liked the vocational trade school materials that I trained on. I think at the time, BOCA issued it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's not so much the training materials themselves that is in question as it is the testing. The state wants a standardized test that will basically decide if the candidate has met the required competencies for the course. The state itself, while it would probably administer the test, can not make up the test (conflict of interest issue) which is why the plumbers board will not get involved. That puts the onus on either the PHCC, NATE or some other 3rd party. sorry this turned into an I hate the PHCC bash, perhaps ron or bill could separate those posts and put them into another thread (which I think would be a real eye opener as well as a pretty hot topic) :thumbup:
 

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It's not so much the training materials themselves that is in question as it is the testing. The state wants a standardized test that will basically decide if the candidate has met the required competencies for the course. The state itself, while it would probably administer the test, can not make up the test (conflict of interest issue) which is why the plumbers board will not get involved. That puts the onus on either the PHCC, NATE or some other 3rd party. sorry this turned into an I hate the PHCC bash, perhaps ron or bill could separate those posts and put them into another thread (which I think would be a real eye opener as well as a pretty hot topic) :thumbup:
I always liked what NATE has to offer. Good videos, really comprehensive training. NAOHSM is another great group to talk to (on the heating side).

I didn't mean to bash the PHCC and perhaps I came across a little strong. The bottom line is the test itself. If the PHCC can produce a competency test that is comprehensive and accurate then I say by all means.

When we had our courses reviewed at our technical high schools (I am an active member of a Trade Advisory Committee) we actually convinced the state to adopt a standardized lesson plan so that a person transferring from one area of the state to the other would be on the same page as the other students. If memory serves me correctly, the PHCC was a major contributor of the lesson plans. Not too shabby, I might add!
 

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... Do you think that the PHCC should be the governing body for apprentice curriculum and testing? If not, then who?
It has to be decided on the local level. In mine and your regions where the deer outnumber the people, we can't be held to standards of Chicago, which is entirely different than the rest of the universe.

The Journeyman test should be nationalized like Canada's Green Goose License. It would be very cool to be able to go to Alabamy and work without paying off the county boss.

I know Obama can work this all out. Ask him.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thing is, this whole thing is tied to the 1st year apprentice program but on the other hand it is a high school CTE course. What the State wants to do is to standardize competencies state wide so that all tech schools are teaching plumbing the same way. If it was post secondary than that's another whole can o worms. My personal feeling is that the states all need to get together and adopt one code so that an apprentice working in Mass could move to Arkansas and not have to start all over on a different code. The code, and license should be transferable from state to state. It makes no sense to make a licensed plumber, re-examine if he moves. This is an issue that the PHCC should have been dealing with for the past 30 years on and has not. Of course, what code to adopt is a huge hurdle as we all have opinions one way or another. Most of which have little basis in fact, for if you really read through the major codes in use today, there is very little difference and in fact some passages are written word for word.
 

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Note that I am not necessarily bashing them on a national level. All the run in's I have had are at the state level and the majority of those are because the state president is a putz. However, my original question still stands. Do you think that the PHCC should be the governing body for apprentice curriculum and testing? If not, then who?

Here in Illinois the apprenticeship program is ran by the state. Now if you want to send your apprentice to a class and you are non-union you can send them here http://www.bfcacademy.com/plumbing/ if the shop is union , the union halls have classes they run the apprentices through for the whole 5 years.
 
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