Avoided pouring a lead joint today...

1025 Views 41 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Tango, 4 d ago

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · 9 d ago (Edited)

I go out to a house today and the dumbass landlord needs this fix done today because someone
is going to move in on june 1st..

Those guys dont know what they are doing and they crack the cast iron arm to the toilet
with a grinder...... I am extremely nervous about that 4 inch 100 year old double cross with 4 side outlets
buried in-between both sides of this double house on the second floor
and I had to consider the risk involved...

I almost went ahead and melted out the lead and okaum and I was gonna pour a
4 inch lead joint.... but I thought better of attempting it.....
I got real lucky with new a 12 inch diablo sawzall blade and just nipped off the pipe ...

I smeared the inside of the cast iron line going into the 4 inch hub with a huge amount of silicone just
to seal it and water proof it better to be sure it lasts another 20 years and I smeared the 4 nipple and fernco fitting
all up with silicone too..
They are gonna finish up the job once the floor is done....
I told this guy he was just a short while away
from running a new pvc drain line up the wall to that mess....and it was just a matter of time

so does this mean I am weak for using a no hub fernco ???😩😩

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3skt2JVyh2BJQmvo9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/x1HhgzUU8obracTm8

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TerryTotoSucks

· #2 · 9 d ago

Shove a test ball in there broski, fill it with water if you worried. You’d need an extension hose.

Reactions: 3

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #3 · 9 d ago

TerryTotoSucks said:
Shove a test ball in there broski, fill it with water if you worried. You’d need an extension hose.

I aint doing anything to that drain... its gonna be just fine
not worried one bit.... silicone is my buddy and I used lots of it..
should work fine for 20 years...or more.

I am more worried about the day
when the double cross-cast fitting in that wall starts to get whiskers on it
the branches are already rusty

Reactions: 3

TerryTotoSucks

· #4 · 9 d ago

Oh…..you used silicone. My bad. ✌

Reactions: 1

Tango

· #5 · 9 d ago

You have some balls working on old stuff like that!

Reactions: 1

dhal22

· #6 · 9 d ago

Tango said:
You have some balls working on old stuff like that!

Agree. My company is spoiled rotten as we transition to mostly commercial service. We turn down most small jobs for a reason, just not a lot of reward.....

Reactions: 2

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #7 · 9 d ago

dhal22 said:
Agree. My company is spoiled rotten as we transition to mostly commercial service. We turn down most small jobs for a reason, just not a lot of reward.....

I had gone back to my office and picked up my Okaum and leading tools and was gonna burn and scrape out that lead joint
and pour a 4 inch pvc nipple into that socket but I wimped out on that idea....

I had 3 new Daiblo carbide foot long blades and I was able to just slice off that elbow berry, berry gently...

the customer still whined about the $400 bill I gave him

Reactions: 2

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #8 · 9 d ago

Tango said:
You have some balls working on old stuff like that!

In around 1975 My father had a a cast iron double whye in a rental property that had a hair line crack in
the fitting , This fitting was about an 1875 joint in an extremely old house.... and it was up
about 10 feet above us in the ceiling.....

They used to make a special kind of epoxy that came in a blue and orange tubes
that you mixed up and made something akin to putty .it mixed with water and went on well .

We made up about 6 of those epoxy packages and he spread it along the crack and moulded the
expoxy out like clay an inch thick on that fitting...... the stuff was allowed to set up and I think
it is still working until this day.......🤠🤠👍

Reactions: 4

TerryTotoSucks

· #9 · 9 d ago

I hope the guy doesn’t tile the bathroom and set the toilet and for one reason or another one of your joints leak or that cast iron has a small crack in it that couldn’t be easy seen.

When asked if you tested the joints the answer would be no.

When asked if silicone is an approved installation method by the coupling manufacturer or an acceptable way to seal cast iron to plastic connections, the answer will be NO.

No way that would pass any inspection anywhere I’ve worked.

I hope you have good insurance, which I’m sure you do.

That’s my opinion.

Reactions: 1

Tommy plumber

· #10 · 9 d ago

Looks good to me.

The slumlord, um I mean landlord just wants a bandaid not a whole house re-pipe of drains and water lines. Just make sure {I know that you did} that you note on your invoice 'temporary repair...etc.'
And add: "Recommendation: all cast iron lead and oakum drain and vent lines be replaced."

I have pre-printed on the bottom of all my invoices:

"No warranty on existing water pipes, faucets, fixtures, valves, sewer lines, or customer-supplied parts. Due to echo and home building materials not being uniform, electronic leak detection may not be exact."

Reactions: 3

skoronesa

· #11 · 9 d ago

Tommy plumber said:
.... Just make sure {I know that you did} that you note on your invoice 'temporary repair...etc.'
....

What he did looks good enough to be permanent to me. And by permanent I mean it will outlast everything it's connected to.

I don't see how us as the plumber could decide if something is temporary. We fix it how we see fit with some understanding of how long our fix might last. It's up to the homeowner to decide if they have it changed later on or if it remains permanent.

Legally I don't think you could defend a "temporary repair". Either you fix some thing to industry standards, a fix that can reasonably last, or you shouldn't be doing it that way. Mind you this is different than fixing something and noting that another part would fail. I would never make a fix and then write on the ticket that I know my fix will fail soon and that I consider it temporary.

I would write;

"Replaced closet bend and reconnected to existing cast iron waste line. Existing cast iron waste line is near the end of it's expected service life and will soon need to be replaced."

Reactions: 5

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #12 · 9 d ago

TerryTotoSucks said:
I hope the guy doesn’t tile the bathroom and set the toilet and for one reason or another one of your joints leak or that cast iron has a small crack in it that couldn’t be easy seen.

When asked if you tested the joints the answer would be no.

When asked if silicone is an approved installation method by the coupling manufacturer or an acceptable way to seal cast iron to plastic connections, the answer will be NO.

No way that would pass any inspection anywhere I’ve worked.

I hope you have good insurance, which I’m sure you do.

That’s my opinion.

When you have done this kind of stuff as long as I have,
terry-toto , then you just will know when to fix or fold on things
of this nature.... and you will know when to leave sleeping dogs lie....

I fixed that mess the best I could without endangering the rest
of that double sanitary cross with 4 side outlets handling both sides
of that double home.....
If I would have beat on that hub just hard enough to get it loose,
I might have broke loose one of those 1 1/2 drains going to the tubs or sinks
and then it would have been the crying game for me....😰😰

Terry you KNOW it will work, it has to work, it cant not, not work.... so its good

jeeeeze... you are starting to sound more like tango every day....

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TerryTotoSucks

· #13 · 9 d ago

Master Mark said:
When you have done this kind of stuff as long as I have,
terry-toto , then you just will know when to fix or fold on things
of this nature.... and you will know when to leave sleeping dogs lie....

I fixed that mess the best I could without endangering the rest
of that double sanitary cross with 4 side outlets handling both sides
of that double home.....
If I would have beat on that hub just hard enough to get it loose,
I might have broke loose one of those 1 1/2 drains going to the tubs or sinks
and then it would have been the crying game for me....😰😰

Terry you KNOW it will work, it has to work, it cant not, not work.... so its good

jeeeeze... you are starting to sound more like tango every day....

I’ve done this type work exclusively my entire career which is approaching 4 decades.

I personally feel if silicone must be used to stop the leak on a connection of your type then it’s time to replace it or walk away. I don’t feel that’s an appropriate use of silicone in the plumbing trade.

And always test the connection with a test ball before other trades cover your work up.

From my view you took a chance for a substantial insurance claim for $400 gross invoice.

Again, just my opinion.

Reactions: 3

dhal22

· #14 · 8 d ago

TerryTotoSucks said:
From my view you took a chance for a substantial insurance claim for $400 gross invoice.

Again, just my opinion.

what you said. And me………

Reactions: 2

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #15 · 8 d ago

TerryTotoSucks said:
I’ve done this type work exclusively my entire career which is approaching 4 decades.

I personally feel if silicone must be used to stop the leak on a connection of your type then it’s time to replace it or walk away. I don’t feel that’s an appropriate use of silicone in the plumbing trade.

And always test the connection with a test ball before other trades cover your work up.

From my view you took a chance for a substantial insurance claim for $400 gross invoice.

Again, just my opinion.

exactly where do you stick the test ball and how much of a stand of water would be necessary to
pass??? Just wondering...

Reactions: 1

TerryTotoSucks

· #16 · 8 d ago (Edited)

Master Mark said:
exactly where do you stick the test ball and how much of a stand of water would be necessary to
pass??? Just wondering...

The test ball goes in the pipe past your work where you connected. I have extension hoses. Put as much head as you want, anything would be better than nothing.

I would at least put a stand pipe as high as a handicap toilet.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Cherne-274011-2-Extension-Hose-3-16-ID?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=search_dsa&utm_campaign=Dynamic_Search_Ads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1LffvoiX_wIV_-_jBx2e2QU1EAAYAiAAEgJhNfD_BwE

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Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #17 · 8 d ago

TerryTotoSucks said:
The test ball goes in the pipe past your work where you connected. I have extension hoses. Put as much head as you want, anything would be better than nothing.

I would at least put a stand pipe as high as a handicap toilet.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Cherne-274011-2-Extension-Hose-3-16-ID?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=search_dsa&utm_campaign=Dynamic_Search_Ads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1LffvoiX_wIV_-_jBx2e2QU1EAAYAiAAEgJhNfD_BwE

Terry, now dont you worry your pretty little head about this....
I think we are gonna be ok....

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TerryTotoSucks

· #18 · 8 d ago

Master Mark said:
Terry, now dont you worry your pretty little head about this....
I think we are gonna be ok....

I’m not worried, I’m laughing about it. Things like that keep me in business. ✌

Did you at least pour a bucket of water down it ? 🫢

Reactions: 3

Master Mark

Discussion Starter · #19 · 8 d ago (Edited)

TerryTotoSucks said:
I’m not worried, I’m laughing about it. Things like that keep me in business. ✌

Did you at least pour a bucket of water down it ? 🫢

When the customer walked away I pissed down the drain....
but some of it missed because I had a freak double stream going
and that always happens at the worst times.... dont you think??

When he came back up to the room he
asked what the yellow water was all about.......LOL

Toto... Is that good enough??

🤣 🤣

Reactions: 3

Debo22

· #20 · 8 d ago

Master Mark said:
When the customer walked away I pissed down the drain....
but some of it missed because I had a freak double stream going
and that always happens at the worst times.... dont you think??

When he came back up to the room he
asked what the yellow water was all about.......LOL

Toto... Is that good enough?? 🤣 🤣

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