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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I go out to a home down south that has sections build as far back as 1840
and it has another area built in 1863 and most of the plumbing from the early 20s...

he claims it was an underground rail road building with a tunnel to the next building about a
block away.......

the guy wants to repair 3 of these tub faucets and I am not sure if this is even possible
they are Crane from about 1920 or earlier


also wants to upgrade he toilets to tank type which would mean reducing the water line in the wall
and coming out with 1/2 or 3/8th which looks like a fun time too......



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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I am not even sure what the handle above the sink is even for on this crane unit......
Thought it might work the drain
but it is not connected in any way....maybe it was for water from a cistern
all sinks in the building have that same thing.....

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The handle above the sink may be a shut off for the toilet or something else. Sometimes you'll see shut offs done that way in really old homes. It could have been for an in wall waste assembly, but that would almost certainly mean access on the back side and probably wouldn't have a "C" on the handle.

Why wouldn't the shower and lav faucet be serviceable? I handle pre-war stuff all the time. Remember, you're not fixing them, just servicing them. Old stuff is meant to be serviced and rarely actually breaks. Most guys now a days just say it's broken because they don't have the tools or knowledge to work on them.
 
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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The handle above the sink may be a shut off for the toilet or something else. Sometimes you'll see shut offs done that way in really old homes. It could have been for an in wall waste assembly, but that would almost certainly mean access on the back side and probably wouldn't have a "C" on the handle.

Why wouldn't the shower and lav faucet be serviceable? I handle pre-war stuff all the time. Remember, you're not fixing them, just servicing them. Old stuff is meant to be serviced and rarely actually breaks. Most guys now a days just say it's broken because they don't have the tools or knowledge to work on them.

I am calling around for parts at this point.... they want to tear out those toilets and install tank type toilets
so that means it has to be reduced in the wall which could go easy or real hard....
 

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I am calling around for parts at this point.... they want to tear out those toilets and install tank type toilets
so that means it has to be reduced in the wall which could go easy or real hard....
What parts do you need? You don't have the standard rebuilding stuff like washers, seats, screws, packings, etc?

I really like those bowls. Is that a sloan angle stop? Never seen that before.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What parts do you need? You don't have the standard rebuilding stuff like washers, seats, screws, packings, etc?

I really like those bowls. Is that a sloan angle stop? Never seen that before.

I have most everything ....been carrying this junk around in my truck for decades
the stems should just take washers , perhaps seats if they can be matched up--which is no big deal
hopefully my seat wrenches will fit whatever kind of seat is staring back at me.....

but the single handle shower valve concerns me--- never fooled with one of those in decades

setting a toilet is not the issue but getting into that pipe in the wall and bushing it down could be a
contest ......

the parts guy at the best store in town told me to bring one of the stems up to him to match them up

gonna worry about this tomorrow.
 

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The valve on the wall above the lav was for hard water. The hot and cold on the sink were softened. you can see where it was hooked up in the pic with your hand.

you were really somebody if your house had soft water back then.
Thanks for that info!

Should be a diverter stem then to swap between the softened and unsoftened on the cold side. Nice.

I have seen ancient softeners, they had to be regenned manually and some were huge, roughly 200gal steel tanks. Some were intended to be swapped out like culligan still does now with smaller steel tanks. Blows my mind that they still do that.
 

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No diverter stem. The hard valve ties into the faucet just like the soft valves. If you look at the pic of the under side of the lav you’ll see third nipple coming out of the wall between the hot and cold. Thats the hard feed.
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No diverter stem. The hard valve ties into the faucet just like the soft valves. If you look at the pic of the under side of the lav you’ll see third nipple coming out of the wall between the hot and cold. Thats the hard feed.
That is something you dont see every day...actually I think its the first time for me....
 

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The handle above the sink may be a shut off for the toilet or something else. Sometimes you'll see shut offs done that way in really old homes. It could have been for an in wall waste assembly, but that would almost certainly mean access on the back side and probably wouldn't have a "C" on the handle.

Why wouldn't the shower and lav faucet be serviceable? I handle pre-war stuff all the time. Remember, you're not fixing them, just servicing them. Old stuff is meant to be serviced and rarely actually breaks. Most guys now a days just say it's broken because they don't have the tools or knowledge to work on them.
Unless the homeowners are rich,replacing that old stuff is the most economical way for them to go,the time it takes tracking this crap down then trying to piece it all back together then it leaks worse after you fixed it and they feel like you screwed them over,new is the best way to go 98% of the time
 

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Thanks for that info!

Should be a diverter stem then to swap between the softened and unsoftened on the cold side. Nice.

I have seen ancient softeners, they had to be regenned manually and some were huge, roughly 200gal steel tanks. Some were intended to be swapped out like culligan still does now with smaller steel tanks. Blows my mind that they still do that.
Was there a ancient water softener in the house mark???
 

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philosopher and statesmen
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Unless the homeowners are rich,replacing that old stuff is the most economical way for them to go,the time it takes tracking this crap down then trying to piece it all back together then it leaks worse after you fixed it and they feel like you screwed them over,new is the best way to go 98% of the time
I am gonna bid this high , already was told to take out a stem and drag it down town to match it up if they even have one...
The were not even sure about this... and not sure about the single handle shower faucets installed above the faucets too....

probably just going to pass on this mess...

The water softener was torn out decades ago and replaced with an Autotrol which appears to soften
the whole house.. its old as hell and turned off too...
.. I assume the old soft line going to about 5 lavatories in the home has been cut
out and capped off long ago too

dicking around with those toilets and installing tank type could be a real challenge too....

I told him 2, 500 to cut it all out and install a single handle delta 1700 and a new
tub drain... we would have to cut out the drum trap too... their are 3 tubs to do in this barn

Its not gonna happen
 

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You can’t put new, modern faucets on those lavatories.
Why not? I don't think he should, but I think he could.

Sign of the crab makes a widespread faucet with an extra wide base for the spout which should cover the old waste control hole. Personally I would have the spout re-plated and then get modern valves to hook up to it. Newport brass makes some trims that look really close to those handles.



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See that area in the circle? The entire pop up linkage is in there. Inside the china. Modern style pop ups won’t work on that lav. And the existing pop up will not work with a new faucet.
 

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I am gonna bid this high , already was told to take out a stem and drag it down town to match it up if they even have one...
The were not even sure about this... and not sure about the single handle shower faucets installed above the faucets too....

probably just going to pass on this mess...

The water softener was torn out decades ago and replaced with an Autotrol which appears to soften
the whole house.. its old as hell and turned off too...
.. I assume the old soft line going to about 5 lavatories in the home has been cut
out and capped off long ago too

dicking around with those toilets and installing tank type could be a real challenge too....

I told him 2, 500 to cut it all out and install a single handle delta 1700 and a new
tub drain... we would have to cut out the drum trap too... their are 3 tubs to do in this barn

Its not gonna happen
You quoted a generous price IMO
 

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View attachment 130385
See that area in the circle? The entire pop up linkage is in there. Inside the china. Modern style pop ups won’t work on that lav. And the existing pop up will not work with a new faucet.
If the homeowner is wanting a usable lavatory then tear out sink and all of it and replace with stiff from the 21st century,if they want to look at it then leave it like you found it
 

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See that area in the circle? The entire pop up linkage is in there. Inside the china. Modern style pop ups won’t work on that lav. And the existing pop up will not work with a new faucet.
Yes, I understand that. He would cover the pop-up hole with the new spout like I said and could no longer use a standard pop-up assembly. I guess I should have mentioned they make push-button pop-ups. Or for that retro look he could get a deep strainer tailpiece with a grumb cup and use a rubber stopper.

Most push button pop-ups have longer threaded portions which he may need given the design of that sink.


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But the hole in the China for the spout is not the same hole as the pop up linkage. There’s two problems with this- the hole is so far to the back that a modern style spout won’t sit right on the sink, and the hole for the pop up linkage is too far away from the other hole to be covered with a spout.
I’ve tried all this in the past. Next thing you know you got 8 hrs fuquin’ around and a cobbled together mess to show for it.
 
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