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All about PEX

23K views 116 replies 23 participants last post by  plumbdrum 
#1 ·
Let's talk about PEX. Any questions or problems.
I've had my hand on almost all types and brands out there and want to see what others think of it.
 
#10 ·
Um, ok.



I have a better quote. "Those that don't use or haven't bothered learning anything about pex are the ones usually bashing it." Whatever you say *******, I guess I'll be sending all my fellow brothers all the way down to the gulf of Mexico then because that is all I install these days and forever more. I sold two more complete repipes today for next week. I'm extremely busy these days and a lot of it has to do with customers calling me asking for PEX. I don't even have to sell it, it sells itself. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing, the more pex I install around here the more people are loving it and telling their neighbors. I feel sorry for those of you missing out. I can tell you this, they already know about it and they want NOTHING to do with copper. I have enough homes in my general area that have rotting galvanized pipes and copper that's springing leaks to keep me busy for the rest of my days!:laughing:
One of the jobs I scheduled for next week the customer actually knew a lot about pex, how it's resistant to bad water, won't split open in a freeze as easy as copper etc. etc., he already knew!!!!!! He was already sold before I even got there! Time to start getting educated or get left behind.
 
#15 ·
Let's not and say we did. Oh we already have, over and over and over again. Let's talk about tankless heaters. Now there's a pretty safe subject. :thumbsup:
Point of order, you left out the flat-rate debate.

Mark :thumbsup:
 
#14 · (Edited)
Yea, I am wrong huh?

Small facts:

#1 copper is a resource

#2 plastic hurts the EARTH

#3

Here argue with this:

Antimicrobial Copper in Healthcare
Learn more about antimicrobial copper and the important new role it will play in the fight against MRSA and other bacteria that cause hospital-acquired infections.
#4
Bunch of other people see it my way http://www.copper.org/homepage.html

#5

Come on Be serious,,,,,you really think adding MORE plastic is good for anyone?

#6 BTW, I have been plumbing with pex since 1997 call Conor Spear Plumbing In New Burn NC ASK FOR WADE....ask him home many miles of that crap we ran and how much we pulled out from homes.when it went bad.....go on call him tell Him Joe from NY, he will remember me I worked for him for over a year.

#7

You guys must be new to plumbing if your seriously going to sit here and argue pex is better and then not have anything to back it up besides "wet head is an idiot"
 
#19 ·
Time to do battle.........

#1 WTF are you even trying to say here?

#2 How is that?

#3 I'll get back to this one in my next post as I have not followed your link yet.

#4 Same as #3

#5 Yes, you don't seem to have any problems with the plastic tubing that doctors would use to save your life with, or the plastic insulation on wires, or the Teflon you use to seal your threaded connections, or the mouse you have your hand on right now and the list goes on.....
Do you really want to get into a debate over the need for plastics? I'm all for being an independent thinker, but that's out there man.

#6 Good for you. What brand were you installing? What type of fittings? What applications? When and where did these failures occur? What was the cause?

#7 Actually, I'm a multi generation master plumber with over ten years experience. I could sweat copper years before I could drive. Nearly all the men in my family are plumbers. I have never done anything other than plumbing in my working life(save a few months as a life guard). I own a major share of the plumbing market in my area. In fact, 3 other companies in my area call me on a monthly basis for advice.

I have a mountain of experience and documentation to back what I say up. So lets get right down to it then.

Counter points:
PEX is the preferred material for residential and light commercial water distribution applications:

It has by far, a lower life cycle cost than copper.
It naturally resists water hammer.
It's uses less energy to manufacture and ship than copper.
It is not damaged by excessive water speed, chlorine, or aggressive water.
It's far more freeze resistant than copper.
There is no comparison between the two when talking about repiping.


Yea, I am wrong huh?

Small facts:

#1 copper is a resource

#2 plastic hurts the EARTH

#3

Here argue with this:

Antimicrobial Copper in Healthcare
#4
Bunch of other people see it my way http://www.copper.org/homepage.html

#5

Come on Be serious,,,,,you really think adding MORE plastic is good for anyone?

#6 BTW, I have been plumbing with pex since 1997 call Conor Spear Plumbing In New Burn NC ASK FOR WADE....ask him home many miles of that crap we ran and how much we pulled out from homes.when it went bad.....go on call him tell Him Joe from NY, he will remember me I worked for him for over a year.

#7

You guys must be new to plumbing if your seriously going to sit here and argue pex is better and then not have anything to back it up besides "wet head is an idiot"
 
#27 ·
How childish and irrelivent.

#8 for my fans


GOOGLE DEFINE PLUMB


  • adjust with a plumb line so as to make vertical
  • exactly; "fell plumb in the middle of the puddle"
  • exactly vertical; "the tower of Pisa is far out of plumb"
SO my friends are you "pexers" or PLUMBERS?

CAUSE I haven't seen much PLUMBed pex lines :)
 
#17 ·
Oh here is some more from stupid non experienced, uneducated *******:

source:
http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/cu_brchrs/why_chse_cu.html
In case of fire, is copper plumbing dangerous?

Copper tube used in any kind of water distribution system won't melt or burn or give off toxic fumes. While a home fire can reach temperatures of 1,500°F, copper offers an extra margin of safety with a melting point of nearly 2,000°F. For these reasons, copper tube is preferred for automatic fire sprinkler systems.



I hear building codes are getting stricter all the time. How does copper fit in?

Copper is the only plumbing material that meets or exceeds building code requirements in all 50 states.


Take the Test

Before you unknowingly accept what you haven't seen in a new home or make a hasty decision based on what appears to be a lower initial cost, do yourself a great favor. Take the 12- Point Plumbing Test below. And remember, you do have a choice!

  1. Does your plumbing material have a long-term proven performance record?
  2. Is it impermeable; can it block contaminants from penetrating its walls?
  3. Can the joints withstand rapid pressure and temperature changes?
  4. Will it perform well in all weather; is it easily thawed, if necessary?
  5. Does it resist punctures and abrasions and not embrittle with age?
  6. Can it inhibit the breeding of harmful germs?
  7. Will it not burn or give off smoke or toxic fumes when exposed to fire?
  8. Will it withstand the weather and the sun's ultraviolet rays in outdoor applications?
  9. Is it virtually maintenance-free; does it have a low lifetime cost of ownership?
  10. Will it add to your home's resale value?
  11. Does it have nationwide approval of building inspectors and engineers?
  12. Does it have inherent quality and value, or is it false economy?
 
#31 ·
See below

Oh here is some more from stupid non experienced, uneducated *******:

source:
http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/cu_brchrs/why_chse_cu.html
In case of fire, is copper plumbing dangerous?

Copper tube used in any kind of water distribution system won't melt or burn or give off toxic fumes. Oh god, your not going with the fire argument are you? The last thing you will die from in a fire is fumes from plastic pipes. If you build a house with no carpet, plastic wire insulation, window shades, furniture or anything else that burns you just may have a shred of an argument. As for the other 99.99% of buildings you've got nothing. It's almost like trying to sell a car by saying "in comes with standard meteorite deflectors". Great point wet head. I never saw it that way.While a home fire can reach temperatures of 1,500°F, copper offers an extra margin of safety with a melting point of nearly 2,000°F. For these reasons, copper tube is preferred for automatic fire sprinkler systems. It might just be my area, but I've never seen even one copper sprinkler system. They are all iron or cpvc.


I hear building codes are getting stricter all the time. How does copper fit in?

Copper is the only plumbing material that meets or exceeds building code requirements in all 50 states. I really don't care what the other 49 states have to say about it because it's legal in mine and has been for decades.


Take the Test

Before you unknowingly accept what you haven't seen in a new home or make a hasty decision based on what appears to be a lower initial cost, do yourself a great favor. Take the 12- Point Plumbing Test below. And remember, you do have a choice!

  1. Does your plumbing material have a long-term proven performance record? YES
  2. Is it impermeable; can it block contaminants from penetrating its walls? Yes, If needed.
  3. Can the joints withstand rapid pressure and temperature changes? YES
  4. Will it perform well in all weather; is it easily thawed, if necessary? YES
  5. Does it resist punctures and abrasions and not embrittle with age? No on the first part, yes on the second.
  6. Can it inhibit the breeding of harmful germs? No, but the chlorine in the water will, so it's irrelevent.
  7. Will it not burn or give off smoke or toxic fumes when exposed to fire? I've already discussed why that is irrelevant.
  8. Will it withstand the weather and the sun's ultraviolet rays in outdoor applications? One the first part: Yes but copper won't. On the second part: No, it's not designed for that and you know it. Putting pex in the sun would be just as stupid as putting copper in a swimming pool.
  9. Is it virtually maintenance-free; does it have a low lifetime cost of ownership? Yes, but copper isn't.
  10. Will it add to your home's resale value? YES. In fact, a good portion of my repiping volume comes from people who demand to have copper homes repiped in pex before they will close on the house. They come to me already in mind. The biggest new construction outfit in town (Vision Plumbing) uses uponor pex. They win bids because they have a 10 year warranty on there systems and everyone else only has a 1 year.
  11. Does it have nationwide approval of building inspectors and engineers? I couldn't tell you but it's legal in my state.
  12. Does it have inherent quality and value, or is it false economy? Yes, more so than copper by far.
Hey, that was fun.

Now you try:

Does your material hold up in acidic soils or water supplys?

Does your material need freeze protection? Will it split if it's left unwinterized?

Does your material resist lightening strike damage if the municipal system is struck?

Does your material resist lime or scale buildup?

Is your material quiet?

Does your material naturally resist water hammer?

Can your material be installed with little or no damage to the customer’s home in a repipe situation?

Is your material naturally energy efficient. Is it energy efficient to produce? Is it energy efficient to ship?


 
#33 ·
I'm going to wait till this one simmers down a bit to luke-warm.


I see positive points on both sides.


I'm just trying to figure out why Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio, New York to name a few all have aging copper systems heading towards 80 years old without failures. NONE

And they are going to break 100 year margins soon enough.

Plastic is "trying" to follow this regimen, but they keep getting tripped up by lawsuits. Hrmmm...


Hrmmm...must be something in the water, because the bad copper seems to be geography, not the norm.


Hrmmm....


Hrmmmm....
 
#34 ·
Plastic is "trying" to follow this regimen, but they keep getting tripped up by lawsuits. Hrmmm...
Oh come on Lawsuits about pex....NEVER ....YOUR A HATER, that couldnt be:rolleyes:

Results 1 - 10 of about 35,800 for pex lawsuits. (0.24 seconds)


  1. Class Action Lawsuit Filed Against Zurn Pex and Zurn Industries ...

    Aug 10, 2007 ... Homeowners in Minnesota have filed a class action lawsuit in federal district court against the manufacturer of residential plumbing systems ...
    newsblaze.com/story/2007081013504600001.pz/topstory.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages -
  2. Zurn Pex Faces Class Action Lawsuits

    May 17, 2008 ... Some lawsuits have already been filed, although as more consumers experience problems with their Zurn Pex plumbing more lawsuits will likely ...
    www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/10631/zurn-pex-brass-fitting-failures.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages -
  3. Zurn Pex Inc. Defective Plumbing

    [BISMARCK TRIBUNE: ZURN PEX LAWSUIT], AUG-10-07: A class action lawsuit has been filed by a Minnesota couple against Zurn Pex after the PEX plumbing system ...
    www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/zurn-pex-plumbing.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages -
  4. Zurn Pex Faces Class Action Lawsuits

    May 17, 2008 ... St. Paul, MN: Consumers who have Zurn Pex plumbing systems in their homes may discover that the system is not all it was.
    www.uslaw.com/law_blogs/?item=144530 - 39k - Cached - Similar pages -
  5. PEX Lawsuit Information

    Overview of PEX lawsuit information. Read a brief history of the company, problems leading to legal issues, and the status of any PEX lawsuits.
    www.injury-settlement-guide.com/pex-lawsuit.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages -
 
#40 ·
i was really skeptical at first, when I began using pex. But now I use pex a lot and I like it. Maybe it will all fall apart someday, but I highly doubt it.
Oh no you should not have told ******* that, he might say you can't plumb cause you use pex.

EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!
 
#45 ·
Oh, you joined this thread to have a good debate? Is this part of your good debate:



Originally Posted by *******
EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


I'll agree with you again *******, you are an idiot. Your inexperience in the plumbing industry and with dealing with People shines brightly. Tell us again about all the different companies you have worked for in your short lived career. I think that speaks volumes about you.:blink:
 
#47 ·
Here's the bottom line. If you live in an area where the water trashes copper, you have 2 choices. pex or cpvc. I choose pex for what I think are obvious reasons.

Even if you take the water quality issue out of the equation, no one is going to pay 3 times more to have their house from copper to copper(with no warranty) when they can have pex with a 25 year warranty and for a fraction of the cost.

I don't completely have it out for copper. There are some things pex cannot do. If I'm doing a solar system(like tomorrow) I have to use copper. No plastic pipe is going to work in that application. The same goes for heat recovery AC systems. Or shower risers and stub outs. But if you come to my neck of the woods trying to sell copper potable water systems you're not going to make it.
 
#52 ·
Pex is already the norm for plumbers across the United States, Canada and overseas. There will always be a few diehards just like there was when copper took over galvanized. Just like when pvc took over cast iron as the norm. That's ok, they will slowly fade off into the sunset just like the other old timers did. This industry is an ever changing one and doesn't wait up for those who lag behind.
I'll be the first to admit it took me a couple years to use wirsbo when it first came out, frankly I wasn't ready to make the change even though I was one of the first to be certified the first year. After a while I saw all my fellow plumbing contractors loading their trucks with coils of wirsbo and it sort of scared me. I thought to myself if I don't get with it I'm done. Long story short I tried it, I liked it. Hey Mikey, he likes it!
Since then I've switched to Viega. I find it faster than wirsbo, easier to work with in this climate etc.
Looking at my schedule I have a small pex and pvc drain job for tomorrow. Today I sold two large pex repipes for next week. Guess what I'm ripping out? Copper.
Also I have yet to see even one sharkbite being used by a homeowner yet, let alone complete pex jobs with them, get real.
I have yet to see a single homeowner attempt their own pex job, sorry just haven't seen it.
For residential, copper is out, Pex is in. I don't care what anyone says on a message board, just take a look at what almost all plumbing contractors are using these days, yes PEX. I've said this before, I doubt I will ever again repipe, or do a new home with copper, seriously. Im too tied up with the pex jobs (no pun intended) a large copper job now would seem silly to me.
I try keeping up with ongoing education and try taking whatever classes I can. I am a PHCC member and do use what they offer. Just got a notice today my local PHCC chapter will be offering the "Green Plumber" 32 hour certification class, I think I'll take it! Night all.
 
#53 ·
I have worked in homes with 80-year old copper, I have not worked in homes with 80-year old PEX. You guys need to be careful to not over-generalize with material failures. PB will fail due to water chemistry. Copper will fail due to water chemistry and soil conditions and PEX will fail due to water chemistry. All of the above will fail due to poor installation. This really has more to do with the environment the material is installed in not being compatible with the material. Just because you don't see failures in your neighborhood does not mean it is not happening.

Mark
 
#57 ·
We have hundreds of repipe and remodel job that have a 25 year warranty on them. Said jobs jobs are 10 years old and older. Our stickers and magnets are all over the place. Permits were pulled. So if there was a failure, the lawyers would have been calling by now.

The concept that because one material has been around longer than another, makes it a better material is false. And copper has had catastrophic failures. When houses start getting slab leaks at only 4 years old throughout whole neighborhoods I call that failure.

PEX is here to stay. If you don't like it, and copper stands up(for now) in your city’s water, then use it. As for me I'll be running pex.
 
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