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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK folks, many of you might have seen my post in the Plumbing section of ContractorTalk.com

I put it there just to keep things on an even keel, not to point fingers. If you're feeling guilty, don't!

That's not my intention. It was simply to get the attention of the community and to remind them that despite our differences, we're still in the same boat at the end of the day.

I'd like to ask those of you that post there to consider posting only neutral comments that directly address the thread and not to enter into semantics. I ask this only to let the situation die down some and for the strong feelings to relax some.

No one has really done anything wrong from a rules standpoint, but from a manners stand point, we could all do better.

Think about it for a day or two. Don't chime in on this thread until you really have something to say that you mean, not just what you think I or anyone else wants to hear. If its important, you'll know. If its not, let it rest.

Mull it over and let's talk this weekend more about it.

Thanks in advance folks.
 

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GC's should not be doing plumbing without the proper license, I only know what my State Requires and I think ID and Wa fall under these same rules, FYI only, I will and say something on CT if a GC from Oregon asked how to do plumbing work, but only after I find the CCB records and research him company name, and if the thread gets closed do to it, I don't have a problem with it, for I feel I have protected the laws of this State. To this date, there has been no incidents of this taking place, but I keep my eye open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, I figured this would have generated more comments by now than this.

I do feel its something we should discuss here as opposed to on CT where we're dealing with other trades feeling the need to impose opinions on us non-stop.
 

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I think that over there, there seems to be a contingent of remodeling contractors that like to stir the pot. Being a plumber yourself you know that amongst ourselves we like to give each other endless crap, but we really don't like taking it from other trades. In 35 years of plumbing I have seen our trade slowly go down the drain:laughing: in more thatn one way. DIY forums are not helping our plight. The notion that without any training, license or knowledge you can slide onto a plumbing forum and get step by step advice is demeaning to the profession. Can you get the same advice from a lawyer or doctor without paying for it. Even so there are some guys willing to give advice and then even when they do the hacks pipe up on him if they don't like what they hear. Imagine working on or piping gas without a license? If the poster is respectfull and has a legitimate question I have no problem with treating him in kind. But more often than not they are rude, disrespectfull, arrogent and just plain stupid. I do agree with you about name calling though. It has no place on the forums and there is no need for it. Just ignore the moron and move on. then again, sometimes the most interesting and fun threads are the ones where everyone's pissed off. :thumbsup: its like the WWE of DIY forums.
 

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Well, I figured this would have generated more comments by now than this.

I do feel its something we should discuss here as opposed to on CT where we're dealing with other trades feeling the need to impose opinions on us non-stop.
Agreed. Its laid back here. I dont think that I have even discussed plumbing on CT but maybe once. By the time you get through all the bs its closed and no one gets answers. DIYers are prevalent down here as well. As bad as it sounds they generate income for my family. They also take it away. Its a double edged sword. Crew full of illegals plumbed in some new apartments at a local college. It was some of the nastiest looking junk I have ever seen. Once the building was turned over the college payed us to sit up there on stand by while students were moving in to make sure everything worked. Its sad but I dont see any end to it... and I hate that.
 

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Well, I figured this would have generated more comments by now than this.

I do feel its something we should discuss here as opposed to on CT where we're dealing with other trades feeling the need to impose opinions on us non-stop.
I don't visit CT as much now, and I never answered questions for anyone that wasn't a regular contributer, and now I avoid getting involved in out of hand bash threads except to take an occasional shot at a certain GC in Cali that thinks plumbers are over rated scum because California's bizarre and dangerous code allows him to perform the trade.
 

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I am guilty. I have posted some replies I should not had there. Now I try to watch my P's and Q's. Most here are just plumbers, and yes, I can relate to the whole GC vs plumber thing, but I get it more than most as I also am a framer, roofer, do siding, decks, along with plumbing. I have watched my money go to the illeagles faster than Rosie O'Donald at the Golden Corral buffet! Where I was starting at 6.00 per square foot to frame and adding from there all the extras, the illeagles are doing it for 3.00! I was doing 3 tab shingles for 60.00 per square new, then the illeagles were doing it for 35.00! They just undercut everything so bad and it does get aggravating watching the GC work for a salery while I have to work for a paycheck. They eat steaks while I have to eat processed frozen hamburger patties. The worst part is that the GC is still getting paid for the going rates but lets the illeagles do the work so they have more money in their bank account. Just like an earlier post I made about a GC who wanted to pay me 1/2 the going rate to do some plumbing. Well when I refused he got someone else to do it. I talked to the HO later on and guess what? He was paying the GC just over what I wanted! The HO showed me the plumbing contract he signed with the GC. So, the GC gets paid top dollar, then wants to cut the subs. Electrical and HVAC for some reason gets what they ask for, no question. But the rest of the trades?

Now I am not saying all GC's are like that, but the ones around here sure do!
 

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I am guilty. I have posted some replies I should not had there. Now I try to watch my P's and Q's. Most here are just plumbers, and yes, I can relate to the whole GC vs plumber thing, but I get it more than most as I also am a framer, roofer, do siding, decks, along with plumbing. I have watched my money go to the illeagles faster than Rosie O'Donald at the Golden Corral buffet! Where I was starting at 6.00 per square foot to frame and adding from there all the extras, the illeagles are doing it for 3.00! I was doing 3 tab shingles for 60.00 per square new, then the illeagles were doing it for 35.00! They just undercut everything so bad and it does get aggravating watching the GC work for a salery while I have to work for a paycheck. They eat steaks while I have to eat processed frozen hamburger patties. The worst part is that the GC is still getting paid for the going rates but lets the illeagles do the work so they have more money in their bank account. Just like an earlier post I made about a GC who wanted to pay me 1/2 the going rate to do some plumbing. Well when I refused he got someone else to do it. I talked to the HO later on and guess what? He was paying the GC just over what I wanted! The HO showed me the plumbing contract he signed with the GC. So, the GC gets paid top dollar, then wants to cut the subs. Electrical and HVAC for some reason gets what they ask for, no question. But the rest of the trades?

Now I am not saying all GC's are like that, but the ones around here sure do!

Which is why I will never work for a GC. I saw this type of thing early on in my plumbing career...and I chose service plumbing over construction plumbing because it is better when you deal directly with the homeowner.
 

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We all talk about terry's site is giving away free info but I was absolutley horrified when I saw CT. It's a bunch of gc trying to do it on there own so they don't have to hire a plumber or hvac tech. That free information on ct is by far worst then things I've seen on the any diy plumbing forum.
 

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Some of the advice given by the gc's over there is absolutly wrong and horrifying. Not to mention the notion that a license is not needed to plumb. But you know what? I don't care anymore. There's no point arguing with someone that has his mind made up. Just sit back and wait for the inspectors to catch up with them.
 

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I think the whole point is that we should let it go. Just read it and if it dont sound right, why start crap? Just ignore it. Let the other wannabes respond. Would be like the blind leading the blind. May be fun just seeing what other non plumbers have to say!

Like DA said, if you have nothing to say, dont say anything. Let the thread have a zero reply to it. No one is saying we HAVE to respond. Like I said, it sure would be fun to read what one DIY'er has to say to another. There really is no need in putting the Mods or Nathan in any position to have to deal with things like that.
 

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I think the whole point is that we should let it go. Just read it and if it dont sound right, why start crap? Just ignore it. Let the other wannabes respond. Would be like the blind leading the blind. May be fun just seeing what other non plumbers have to say!

Like DA said, if you have nothing to say, dont say anything. Let the thread have a zero reply to it. No one is saying we HAVE to respond. Like I said, it sure would be fun to read what one DIY'er has to say to another. There really is no need in putting the Mods or Nathan in any position to have to deal with things like that.
I'll second that motion.
 

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I will still reply if it within my area, I won't sit and watch some GC from Oregon get away with doing work without proper license.
 

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It's gotten so defensive over there that they act like it's a taboo to so much as mention having a plumber do plumbing....:blink:

Finley asked about a recirc pump, I mentioned my thoughts briefly, then suggested he ask his regular plumber (my code prohibits those type).

Next thing ya know the thread is all about bashing plumbers and implying that suggesting anyone ask their plumber is a violation of TOS.

Some members have even been seeding the plumbing forum with intentional threads to fuel the fueding.
 

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It's gotten so defensive over there that they act like it's a taboo to so much as mention having a plumber do plumbing....:blink:

Finley asked about a recirc pump, I mentioned my thoughts briefly, then suggested he ask his regular plumber (my code prohibits those type).

Next thing ya know the thread is all about bashing plumbers and implying that suggesting anyone ask their plumber is a violation of TOS.

Some members have even been seeding the plumbing forum with intentional threads to fuel the fueding.
I see that too. They come in a stir it up because they know we will fire back at them. You can look back at a post in the general discussion over there a couple of weeks back and they were complaining about unlincesed hacks undercutting work from them. But they get all bent out of shape when we defend ourselves
 

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You can look back at a post in the general discussion over there a couple of weeks back and they were complaining about unlincesed hacks undercutting work from them.
Maybe thats time to just post this...

"Hmmmm :whistling2:"
 

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Well, its like yesterday. I went to Lowes to pick up a couple of PVC fittings. There was a man there who said his GC had sent him to get a few fittings. He told the HO that it was 1-1/2 fittings, but the pipe was 2" across! The HO was dumbfounded because he was there trying to figure out how this 2" pipe fit into 1-1/2 fitting!

Also I noticed another "How much to charge" thread. Instead of jumping in and starting trouble, I left it alone.
 
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