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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM   #21
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Dane since you seem to be a stand up guy who would not start doing shenanigans like some guys here since the new new law came into effect you'd probably be in the same boat as I. Leave the trade or start working as a slave working overtime for peanuts while the employer shows up on the jobsite with a brand new harley bike or jacked up pickup with 30 000$ worth of chrome, or I don't know.
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Dane since you seem to be a stand up guy who would not start doing shenanigans like some guys here since the new new law came into effect you'd probably be in the same boat as I. Leave the trade or start working as a slave working overtime for peanuts while the employer shows up on the jobsite with a brand new harley bike or jacked up pickup with 30 000$ worth of chrome, or I don't know.
I guess I would consider myself a stand up guy yes. I honestly did not really know there was a way for companies to request a plumber by name other than maybe a little bit of "favors" here and there.
Like I said where I came from the union was only for the purpose of ensuring good working conditions and to negotiate base wages for what ever trade or job title that union served (unions for every job even part time shop boy) unlike here they did not have a finger in employment or any interest in it at all other than knowing where there were job openings and could give you a heads up about it. I quite honestly think the unions here should focus on working conditions and requirements for proper training. They should not be handling work and jobs because it basically makes them in to some sort of secondary employer. I think those ideas clash together.

Now tell me why you blame greedy employers for lousy plumbers taking your jobs while working over time for peanuts? Employers are in the game to make money so they just do what is natural to them. Why not blame the only ones actually responsible for this downfall you speak of, the plumbers! If plumbers did not accept such treatment and payment the employers would not have a cheap workforce to take your job. If those cheap plumbers have a license it means someone trained them. It starts with training people better to not lower their standards like that.

I strongly believe that it is up to the individual to set high standards and to uphold others to high standards and that will determine the market. Demand and supply. If there is mostly people with high standards then the market will take the high standard because it's what is available. Is that not exactly how unions achieved ensuring good working conditions with good pay? By standing together and telling the employers that higher standards would be the norm if they wanted work done.

Tango, you yourself are now an employer. You employ yourself. It is up to you to do your part in making sure a high standard is the norm. Do quality work and make sure you train at a minimum 1 guy to your standards so as to even out for when you one day are gone and to repay that someone once trained you. Better yet take part in making sure your market improves by training even more people to a higher standard than the current market norm so you can contribute to the scale tipping towards higher standards.

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Old Today, 07:16 AM   #23
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I guess I would consider myself a stand up guy yes. I honestly did not really know there was a way for companies to request a plumber by name other than maybe a little bit of "favors" here and there.
Like I said where I came from the union was only for the purpose of ensuring good working conditions and to negotiate base wages for what ever trade or job title that union served (unions for every job even part time shop boy) unlike here they did not have a finger in employment or any interest in it at all other than knowing where there were job openings and could give you a heads up about it. I quite honestly think the unions here should focus on working conditions and requirements for proper training.



I strongly believe that it is up to the individual to set high standards and to uphold others to high standards and that will determine the market. Demand and supply. If there is mostly people with high standards then the market will take the high standard because it's what is available. Is that not exactly how unions achieved ensuring good working conditions with good pay? By standing together and telling the employers that higher standards would be the norm if they wanted work done.

Tango, you yourself are now an employer. You employ yourself. It is up to you to do your part in making sure a high standard is the norm. Do quality work and make sure you train at a minimum 1 guy to your standards so as to even out for when you one day are gone and to repay that someone once trained you. Better yet take part in making sure your market improves by training even more people to a higher standard than the current market norm so you can contribute to the scale tipping towards higher standards.

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They should not be handling work and jobs because it basically makes them in to some sort of secondary employer. I think those ideas clash together.

The employers all had to call the union to get guys. The Union would call the guys on the list and ask you if you wanted to go work for that employer(mostly companies from outside of town) Then you'd ask how long the project was, most times it was a couple of weeks, some a few months. Some were only for a day like a shutdown at the papermill. They'd tell you if it was a commercial job, a pipefitter's job in a mill or take a plane ticket to another province to build or a mill shutdown. At the very least this way I was called for work. After the law no more calls! How in the world are you supposed to know an outside company that's 3 hours away getting a 3 week project in your home town? Or how do you know a company that's in another city who doesn't have enough local guys for a new 4 week project?


Now tell me why you blame greedy employers for lousy plumbers taking your jobs while working over time for peanuts? Employers are in the game to make money so they just do what is natural to them. Why not blame the only ones actually responsible for this downfall you speak of, the plumbers! If plumbers did not accept such treatment and payment the employers would not have a cheap workforce to take your job.If those cheap plumbers have a license it means someone trained them. It starts with training people better to not lower their standards like that.

All my life employers were oppressing us with bad conditions if they could get away with it. No lunch room, how about sitting on your lunch box for break or lunch and you have 2 feet of snow around your ankles and you have to eat popsicles because it froze during the morning? no safety equipment, They'd cheat you out of your overtime, your travel expenses etc. WORST OF ALL NO PORTA POTIIES ON THE JOB, no way to clean your hands either!!! I was once a shop steward for 21 plumbers and the employer threatened to fire me if I pushed to have a sink so the guys could wash their hands! It was an 8 month high rise project! I also blame the workers, in order to keep their job they bend to the will of the bad employers.


The old timers and myself included would fight back but you'd always have the guys who had no back bone. Once the gate was ajar the tide came in and swept it all away. The guys who weasel are mostly the millennials who bought themselves shiny new 40-50K pick up trucks with chrome wheels, a new house, a new atv. I couldn't believe it, kids not older than 20 years old coming on job sites with brand new trucks! They demand it all unlike the old timers who took a lifetime to save every penny and bought only 2 sets of clothes. These young guns are up to their throat with debts and they'll accept anything and do anything to keep all their toys.

When our terms expired and time to negotiate with the employers they'd really try to screw us more. We'd strike but the government felt we were holding the economy hostage so they fined the union a million dollars a day when on a strike. And you know what the strike was legal! We didn't strike very long and had to go back to work with not so good conditions.

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