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Control Stop on the fly

7K views 39 replies 11 participants last post by  Tango 
#1 ·
Have any of you changed a Sloan Regal or Royal control stop out without shutting the supply off? I now work in a hospital and to my suprise valves are few and far between. I cant even stick my head up into the cieling to find one because removing a tile requires about 3 meetings, 2 hours of paper work and air testing...its a big deal and coming from working in construction is really frustrating. An example would be using my screw driver to turn off the stop and the stop breaking and springing a leak flooding out patient room because nobody can get to a shutoff valve. Id rather have a small flood than a big flood so Any tips, tricks, advice?
 
#2 ·
I've never had the supply stop break and cause a massive leak. Worst case was that turning it off resulted in a significantly reduced flow and I was still able to make the repairs to the flush valve and then mop up the water from the floor, but made a recommendation to replace the supply stop at the convenience of the business for ease of future repairs.

I understand in a hospital that may be difficult still, but I would imagine they would have some sort of maintenance team that should have some idea where shutoffs are located.
 
#3 ·
A rule of thumb for my small company is to know how and where to shut the water off before any work is started.

Before I started my own company, I worked for the government for 2 years and understand the frustration.

You can make it a personal rule to have a latter, a few empty buckets & maybe a valve hook(piece of half-inch conduit bent into a hook 5 to 7 feet long ) with you before starting even the easiest of jobs.
 
#4 ·
I have changed many main line valves on the fly up to 1 inch, after that the water pressure and volume is just to much to handle, but this has been done in open basements or crawl spaces where any amount of water will do no damage, now in a commercial building with multiple stories where flood damage could run into the tens or hundreds of thousands of $$$..I would want to know where the shut off valve is and make sure it worked before I started any repairs..
 
#6 ·
The seals wear out and when you turn the screw water drips from the screw and in worse cases shoots out from the screw no matter if its turned off or on. The problem is compounded because its a hospital. Water on the floor could cause slip n falls and the time it takes to find a valve could cause a lot of water to fill the patients room. Its a state hospital...nobody wants to do anything or buy anything which takes forever to procure. The house "plumbers" which i am now one of have set up things and hold things secret (like valve locations) to ensure job security. Not installing valves also adds to job security ie...Overtime. I am new here and not used to working like this. I was wondering if I got a leak i could maybe disconnect flushometer from the stop maybe add a hose and hope the water would take path of least resistanse through the hose dumped into drain buying enough time to change the broken stop valve....I dunno. Im coming from union construction and have not had to deal much with service n repair work until now. Sooo any tips or thought are appreciated..thanks
 
#7 ·
Sadly, because they are angle valves, the path of least resistance is straight out into your face, not through the flush valve.

Not only that, but I try to be gentle with those stops when I change them, if I have to change to body, because most of the time they are just screwed on to a soldered fitting, and with the sleeve there, you can't hold it with a tool.

Another reason i'd want the water off before screwing with the stop.

I've had them drip before, but sometimes you can rotate em 1/4 turn left or right and they will stop. Never had one shoot out into the room uncontrollably.
 
#8 ·
There should be a set of valves in the ceiling, wall, etc. to shut off areas without interfering with the whole building. Most codes require it.

Look for obvious panels.
 
#10 ·
I worked at the casino for a year as a 2nd year apprentice doing plumbing maintenance full time. There weren't many valves to shut down the line and fix a faucet for example. It was a nightmare, my mechanic would swear up and down searching for nights 1,2, 3! (we were working nights) to find a valve. Renting a scissor lift up to the ceiling 40 feet in the air, looking in dead space shafts using gang planks to try and access a valve hoping its the right one and usually it wasn't it. Many times we'd put a bucket in the ceiling tied with wire to catch the drip so they could use the black jack table during the day because we wouldn't have time to drain the system and repair.

Last summer at a hospital, the guy that does maintenance assured the plumber I know (just recently finished his 4th year apprenticeship) the water was shut off. He proceeded to cut a 4" copper water main with a sawzall. Flooded 3 floors, shut down surgery and several rooms. Several millions in damages. A year after that I worked for that same company, the plumber left to work with another company. What a stupid boss owner(Another story and my last boss ever!!)

What I'm saying do it on the fly and watch the millions go out the window and you may go to jail because of criminal negligence. Your reputation as a dumba$$ will follow you for life.
 
#11 ·
I put my ass in the ringer once while freezing and capping lines in a hospital.
Had a 140° hot line blow with no back up. I was heating the line to sweat on a cap and the heat got too close to the freeze plug. Flooded a good portion of the floor. There wasn't a next time, but if there ever is, I will have a plan "b", like using an female adapter instead of a cap with a sharkbite as a back up. They didn't have sharkbites back when this occurred.
 
#17 ·
Have any of you changed a Sloan Regal or Royal control stop out without shutting the supply off?
Yes, but it was in a lawn maintenance shop with low pressure so no big deal.

I can't even imagine trying this in a finished hospital. Anything can go wrong. The sweat ring could come off as your loosening it. I agree hospital work can be a pain, but you gotta follow protocol.
 
#18 ·
The problem is that aside from the lack of valves you can't pop your head into the cieling to see if there is a valve. Most of these calls are bathrooms in patient rooms. You arent allowed to open a drop cieling tile with a patient there. Even without a patient in the room (empty room) you have to set up a booth that extends to the cieling. Then after you close the cieling tile someone has to come in and test the air. So it takes at least an hour and paper work to slide open 1 drop cieling tile. Also, if there is a valve it may not just shut off the water to that one bathroon. It might shut water off to the ER. Or dyalisis room which might be on the same floor...crazy right
 
#19 ·
sure is, but flooding 5 floors down would be much worse...and how many millions of damage..so weigh the liability and if you cant find valves and any boss tells you to go ahead make sure you got witnesses after the flood, because you know you will be the scape goat and hung out to dry...no pun intended..
 
#31 ·
ill just add or it should have been first..safety...I dont want to get flooded and electrocuted if a ton of water unexpectedly hits me, nor if im opening a gas line I want gas flowing out and going boom...like I said before I personally want eyes on the valve and a hand..
 
#38 ·
Hahahahaha that’s awesome!!

I got a call for one of my Tim Horton locations (Yonge/Finch) a few years back, around 1am. Apparently someone had tried to remove/steal the flushometer from the woman’s washroom, but she/they didn’t shut the valve before she/they tried to unthread the nut! Of course nobody knew enough to shut off the main, When I got there 30 mons later, was water flowing out of the front doors!
 
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