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Old 03-26-2020, 12:29 PM   #11
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Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.



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Originally Posted by ShtRnsdownhill View Post
kolher SUCKS...thats why...




Yeah, kohler sucks a little more than most but they're not the only ones who play this game, almost all of them do. I hate kohler but will say they do keep their retail prices high so plumbers can make markup and the parts at home cheapo are usually different than what plumbers can get.


I think fill valve compatibility is the only good area, a pro45 can fit in almost any tank. But I think that's because FM is an injection molder who is the oem for many companies but also peddles it's own line of products.


Korky on the other hand is the oem for most flappers and since they don't have much skin in the direct retail market they go along with toilet manufacturers and will produce 100's of different flapper designs.




Faucets/shower valves have the same bs. They make money on peddling a "better design". Most plumbers know better which is why delta and moen were the staple for so long. Unfortunately they have decided to play the game more too so the venerable moen 1200 faucets are gone and delta is shying away from balls with seats and springs. This isn't happening because the new designs are better, any of you who have seen moen or deltas black ceramic cartridges know they suck.




Plumbing fixture manufacturers aren't marketing to plumbers anymore, they are trying to sell direct to the homeowner. Plumbers won't put up with that horse schit so these companies try to inject bias into the homeowner hoping they will tell their plumber what to put in or that they will buy it themselves and put it in on their own.




If they were marketing towards us than the packaging would be smaller and take up less space on the van. Instead delta sells a pair of seats and springs in a package that probably costs more than the product and takes up 10x the space. Now it has to look good on the rack at home cheapo and make the diy feel like they actually bought something. Not a little dime bag with two tiny pieces of rubber and some small springs.









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Sharkfin flapper-s-l640.jpg  

Sharkfin flapper-ad202g.jpg  

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Old 03-27-2020, 07:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper View Post
Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.
They keep changing there $hitty shower valves too, hate thoughs p.o.s.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:08 PM   #13
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i love kohler . the headquarters is 15 minutes from me. they are a huge part of our local economy. i would agree that some things are over engineered but for the most part, i would rather install or repair their products more than anything else. most of the homes around here have kohler and always will. if you dont, people notice. kohler stands behind their products and doesnt have a problem sending repair parts for free. try that with most other products on this planet, plumbing or not.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:28 PM   #14
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i love kohler . the headquarters is 15 minutes from me. they are a huge part of our local economy. i would agree that some things are over engineered but for the most part, i would rather install or repair their products more than anything else. most of the homes around here have kohler and always will. if you dont, people notice. kohler stands behind their products and doesnt have a problem sending repair parts for free. try that with most other products on this planet, plumbing or not.



Plenty of other companies will send home owners free repair parts even for decades old stuff if the part's available. We are a kohler dealer and most of the stuff we install in normal homes(not huge, million dolllar) is kohler. The quality is crappier than most.



Next time you install a kohler tank with that old stove top element imprint in the tank look at the front of the tank edge from top down with the lid off and you'll see how twisted the tanks are. Been that way for decades.




Here's a pic of a flush hole, lots of flashing left to restrict water flow. That 3" flush valve is now 1-1/4".







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Old 03-28-2020, 02:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Plenty of other companies will send home owners free repair parts even for decades old stuff if the part's available. We are a kohler dealer and most of the stuff we install in normal homes(not huge, million dolllar) is kohler. The quality is crappier than most.



Next time you install a kohler tank with that old stove top element imprint in the tank look at the front of the tank edge from top down with the lid off and you'll see how twisted the tanks are. Been that way for decades.




Here's a pic of a flush hole, lots of flashing left to restrict water flow. That 3" flush valve is now 1-1/4".







.
how do you know it wasnt designed that way goofball??? it looks like the restriction is to make water go through the down jets around the rim, that also gets the swirl action going, if the hole was cleaned out 3 inch all around only the lower bowl jet....
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:58 AM   #16
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how do you know it wasnt designed that way goofball??? it looks like the restriction is to make water go through the down jets around the rim, that also gets the swirl action going, if the hole was cleaned out 3 inch all around only the lower bowl jet....




Tell ya what, that's a kohler ada height, "Highline" model I think, when things get back to normal you'll have sooooo many pictures of flush holes











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Old 03-28-2020, 01:25 PM   #17
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Tell ya what, that's a kohler ada height, "Highline" model I think, when things get back to normal you'll have sooooo many pictures of flush holes











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and your point??? and again how do you know it wasnt designed that way????
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:08 PM   #18
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and your point??? and again how do you know it wasnt designed that way????



Because we're a kohler dealer and I install at least a couple new kohler toilets a month. I have seen enough to know that doesn't look right . Maybe there is a bit of a scoop thing supposed to be going on there but it's definitely not supposed to be like that small in the center.




But I am open to criticism and the possibility of being wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as I think it is. That's why I will collect more evidence in the form of pictures and share my research.






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Old 03-28-2020, 02:35 PM   #19
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Because we're a kohler dealer and I install at least a couple new kohler toilets a month. I have seen enough to know that doesn't look right . Maybe there is a bit of a scoop thing supposed to be going on there but it's definitely not supposed to be like that small in the center.




But I am open to criticism and the possibility of being wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as I think it is. That's why I will collect more evidence in the form of pictures and share my research.






.
did you install it? how did it flush? did you compare it to another of the same exact model?
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:21 PM   #20
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did you install it? how did it flush? did you compare it to another of the same exact model?



I don't remember, that picture is from like 6 months ago, I found when going through old pictures for another picture.







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