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Old 07-30-2018, 08:35 PM   #1
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Default Fun estimate

I'm going this afternoon to do an estimate for a bathroom reno. The first time someone accepts to pay. The woman told me they've been waiting a month for an illegal plumber to show up and want it done now

I don't think I'll be giving a big discount on the quote from my regular rate, all the construction shops in the entire province are still closed for another week.



Well my estimate is going to be fun, the guy only chose one thing for the bathroom and it's a wall hung toilet (Grohe) with a flush valve inside the wall. I've never installed one and the carrier is probably made for 2x4 walls.

Not sure how I'm going to count that, at least 5 hours for the carrier and hopefully when they remove the floor I can reroute the pipe into the wall.

Then theres this free standing tub flush to the wall, it shouldn't be too bad with the new drain contraption where you only drop the tub with the drain tube tail piece into the thing.

To top it off they are hiring a neighbor and seems he's a youngster who's doing most of the other work. They supposedly hired an electrical contractor. I don't know what pitfalls I can get into.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:45 PM   #2
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run like hell away from there...2 reasons..it sounds like a train wreck and how do you know any other people working are properly licensed and insured?? you will be responsible if they are not..and the people already revealed they are cheap $hit customers and will probably burn you in the end..
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:11 PM   #3
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run like hell away from there...2 reasons..it sounds like a train wreck and how do you know any other people working are properly licensed and insured?? you will be responsible if they are not..and the people already revealed they are cheap $hit customers and will probably burn you in the end..
You got me thinking about the insurance. They are acting like a GC when it comes to a reno, and if they hire all the trades themselves technically they need a GC licence. However the ministry don't care about that but it feels like they aren't hiring any other trades either, just this one guy...

If anything goes wrong I'm the only legit contractor maybe the electrician.

Then like you say they may be cheap if they are ready to hire the next door youngster. I saw they bought an ikea floating vanity(those are cheap quality) Hell just a rough estimate the plumbing bid will easily reach 5000-6000 for the rough in and 3500 for the finish, they have heavy glass shower doors to install in that.

You are getting me worried as I should be, I suppose. What would be best, to drive to their place and return the cheque in person?
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:27 PM   #4
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well did you get your price and paid in full yet? you can ask for insurance certificates from the other people they hired and see what the owners say..do you need permits for a bath reno by you? if they get caught do you get fined and put your license in jeopardy? if you were doing all the work your self or you hired the other people then I wouldnt be too worried..
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:41 PM   #5
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I just visited them today to see their project, all the walls are stripped and one layer of subfloor removed and all fixtures gone.

I charged 1 hour labour and credit it if they hired me. the 1hr charge is to prepare an estimate where I was going to start tomorrow morning on it and hand it to them in 2 days.

I don't need a permit, but they should get a city permit. I've called the city a month ago about that and it's on them if they don't.

I'm not allowed to hire anyone other than a related trade like a pipe insulator or core driller. I would need to pass just one more exam to have a GC licence and I think I could do the whole job myself except electrical if I wanted to.

I could ask them the insurance from the electrician or their licence number because they didn't say which company and I know the youngster might not be legit and also see their city permit. That will probably eliminate the job. I prefer for it to be cancelled than a can of worms.
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:24 AM   #6
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I'm not allowed to hire anyone other than a related trade like a pipe insulator or core driller. I would need to pass just one more exam to have a GC licence and I think I could do the whole job myself except electrical if I wanted to.
I made an error in this statement, if I had a GC licence I could hire all the trades but if I wanted to work by myself I would need a licence for each trade. Most small time GC's here get the licence but don't sub out the work and do it all themselves illegally.


On the flip side when thinking they may be somewhat cheap they have designer plans made. I don't know if they are expensive to make.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:02 AM   #7
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ok, here technically you need a plumbing permit and inspection to change a freaking faucet,,all revenue generating, I do town and county jobs for a contractor , its a low income /senior deal and if I have to change a toilet or any faucet they want a permit and inspection, since you dont need permits on that job just write up your contract to reflect your not responsible for anyones work except your own and the all need their own insurances..I had a friend that was a lawyer write up the small print thats on the backside of my contracts thats almost bullet proof for anything that could happen on a job to protect me, nothing is 100% but you want as much protective writing in it as possible, so if you ended up in court defending yourself you have something in writing and signed by the owner..
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:33 AM   #8
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Ok noted. I'll write they are responsible to get a reno permit and responsible for hiring licenced contractors with insurance.


It will soon pass that contractors need insurance but at the moment they don't have to. I did take one for me. If I get more renos which I doubt I'll get a lot of, I'll need a good contract.

One thing that boggles me, I know Alan answered it, but I still have a hard time understanding the process of getting a permit to change a kitchen faucet and have it inspected? Do you wait in line at city hall getting a permit before going to someones house?? A 250$ install becomes 600$ for the time spent doing extra leg work?
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:48 AM   #9
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Ok noted. I'll write they are responsible to get a reno permit and responsible for hiring licenced contractors with insurance.


It will soon pass that contractors need insurance but at the moment they don't have to. I did take one for me. If I get more renos which I doubt I'll get a lot of, I'll need a good contract.

One thing that boggles me, I know Alan answered it, but I still have a hard time understanding the process of getting a permit to change a kitchen faucet and have it inspected? Do you wait in line at city hall getting a permit before going to someones house?? A 250$ install becomes 600$ for the time spent doing extra leg work?

make sure you also put in your contract any fines or fees for any permit they need are their responsibility to pay for and not yours..

new york is a strange place to work, there is no state plumbing license , every municipality has there own almost, most of the smaller municipalities reciprocate to the larger town licenses, and that is just in the country you are working for, then some counties have their own license and then the smaller towns in that country have their own licenses ..the county I live in has over 45 municipalities, towns, villages that require their own licenses and at an average of $100 to $200+ a year in license fees it adds up in fees just to be able to work in those areas..unless its a town or county job noone gets permits for the small stuff like faucet and bowl replacement, and only file if the job has a building permit then you need a plumbing permit and the electrician needs a permit as well..example , I did a bathroom remodel for a contractor , it was a town job, just a basic 3 piece bathroom nothing moving just changing from a tub to a shower base, toilet and vanity in same location, not alot of new piping..$170.00 plumbing permit, $170.00 building permit and the electrician had to file a permit unknown $$, and the plumbing inspector was more concerned that the house had smoke and carbon dioxide detectors and if not he wouldnt do the inspection...and people wonder why the high prices to get work done...this one town you drop off the permit with a blank check, they tell you how much it will be and then when the inspector has the time he fills out the check and you get back in the mail the permit, other towns or villages you wait and pay at the time you submit the permit and yes lots of time wasted on that, and new york city is a whole different animal, im not licensed there but have a few friends that are, and they pay a service to file permits for jobs, then upstate new york..there are no plumbing inspectors, just maybe in some big cities, otherwise its a free for all on who is doing the plumbing....
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:02 AM   #10
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Wow what a mess with companies with who the F cares.

Last year I needed a city business permit(300$) but they removed it this year because my office is home.
For me 1000$ the first year then 500$ after that for the contractor license (annually)
1050$ to be a Master Pipe Mechanic member to be allowed to plumb (annually)
50$ Bond (annually)

Soon it will be mandatory to have insurance to cover materials instead of a material bond.
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