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Old 06-19-2019, 10:44 PM   #1
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Default Adding C.O. to old non-circular lead bend in slab.

I have to plug a lead bend in a way that I can open it to snake. There is a fold pushed in a bit enough that a red Marq-Two plug will not properly seal. I am thinking a 3" cast iron no-hub clean out caulked in .


I ordered 3" & 4" no hub clean outs, a 3" pvc clean out, a 3" pvc female adapter, and a 3" pvc plug. I should have ordered a 3" pvc coupling.


I just realized I can probably chip out the concrete around it push the fold out to make it circular again. Well schit.








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Old 06-19-2019, 10:50 PM   #2
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Where are the pics? It's difficult to understand what you want to do.
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:36 PM   #3
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Where are the pics? It's difficult to understand what you want to do.

Sadly I do not have pics. You guys got many lead bends up there?








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Old 06-19-2019, 11:47 PM   #4
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None. Only lead for toilet flanges back 50 years ago and rarely nowadays in only in a few commercial places.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:40 AM   #5
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Sadly I do not have pics. You guys got many lead bends up there?








.

yes tons of them....but what you want todo by putting a cleanout into the lead probably wont work, your better off to chop back to the cast iron and put a proper cleanout in line...
question, how are you gona caulk cast into lead? without pics its difficult to picture what your talking about..
but a brass ferrel will caulk onto lead, new lead, something buried for any time, forget about it, replace the lead bend with a new one..
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:53 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=skoronesa;1208222]I have to plug a lead bend in a way that I can open it to snake. There is a fold pushed in a bit enough that a red Marq-Two plug will not properly seal. I am thinking a 3" cast iron no-hub clean out caulked in .

I assume that the bend is no longer needed, but you want to make a clean-out at that location?

Lead bends are attached to other piping with a furrel , the 4" lead is usually wiped to the brass furrel. The Furrel is caulked into a cast iron hub. The exception being a dry furrel, popular in the 30's as a alternative to lead wiping. This was a factory made joint.

In your case I would remove everything into the cast iron. The lead joint can be drilled, chopped or melted out. Then caulk in a IBTS and grease the threads for easy removal.

This is known as working with the old stuff --- have fun!


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Old 06-20-2019, 06:53 PM   #7
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Well I did it. 3" no-hub c.o. into the flange of the lead bend. I forgot to take a pic of the hole before I put the c.o. in but it's just a 4" lead bend cut slightly above floor level and then the folds I remembered from when I plugged it a couple years ago were actually just the lip which would hold the brass flange, someone bent them over and in. I bent them back out and cut the lead flush with the top of the floor. I then hammered the inner diameter flat all around. The hole was slightly oval so I put a hose clamp on the end of the c.o. with the screw gear in the largest gap so my oakum wouldn't push out there.


This is the first lead oakum joint I have ever caulked and I can say three things for certain:


- It worked out great and I can guarantee it won't leak
- Much better than jacking up the floor to connect to the cast iron

- I will sleep perfectly at night if I never caulk another joint again


The biggest pita was that I used lead wool instead of pouring the joint. If there wasn't a hard wired smoke detector literally right above my head I would have used my blow torch to melt the lead so it could flow into place. I easily spent twice as much time caulking the lead wool in than the oakum.


I also used some water plug cement on an old floor drain that was toast. This area was a bathroom back in the day. The toilet flange was left open when I first saw it several years ago and used as a drain for an ice maker that used to be there. Every time the main line clogged it would back up the toilet flange and the floor drain and then flow down the stairs into a lower room with no drain. On one occasion the lower room filled with about a thousand gallons of sewage and they had to have a septic truck pump it out. The building is older than Bill Parr's grandfather who could have put the plumbing in when he was an apprentice.


Almost the exact same thing happened a month or two ago when the town main clogged. I put a marq-two plug in a couple years ago but with that most recent occurence it couldn't hold the pressure and lots of effluent made it out. I couldn't simply cement this lead bend up as the next closest c.o. for the original main line is ~80' farther back, with a 100' snake that don't jive. Also that c.o. is under some shelving and I practically have to lay on the floor to snake it which I have done probably a dozen times. Mind you I can't close those bathrooms when I do either. That issue was fixed a couple years back by me jacking up some slab and replacing some pipe and fittings in the floor of what used to be another bathroom.
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Old 06-21-2019, 12:09 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=skoronesa;1208242]Well I did it. <snip>



The biggest pita was that I used lead wool instead of pouring the joint. If there wasn't a hard wired smoke detector literally right above my head I would have used my blow torch to melt the lead so it could flow into place. I easily spent twice as much time caulking the lead wool in than the oakum.


In my opinion good that you used lead wool to make the joint. Had you melted lead to pour -- you probably would have burnt through the lead. What temp does lead melt at? that's why solder was used to join lead.

That photo of the old lead bend I posted a couple of weeks ago. That brass piece with the threads was soldered into the bend. No lead to lead joining was the rule.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:50 PM   #9
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[quote=PLUMBER_BILL;1208262]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Well I did it. <snip>



The biggest pita was that I used lead wool instead of pouring the joint. If there wasn't a hard wired smoke detector literally right above my head I would have used my blow torch to melt the lead so it could flow into place. I easily spent twice as much time caulking the lead wool in than the oakum.


In my opinion good that you used lead wool to make the joint. Had you melted lead to pour -- you probably would have burnt through the lead. What temp does lead melt at? that's why solder was used to join lead.

That photo of the old lead bend I posted a couple of weeks ago. That brass piece with the threads was soldered into the bend. No lead to lead joining was the rule.



I get what you're saying and I agree. I have had to solder lead to lead or solder to solder before and it's near impossible at times. In this case I didn't want to melt all of the lead wool, just the top layer to give it a nice smooth cap without having to chisel away with the caulking irons for what felt like forever! Oh well, it's done.










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Old 06-21-2019, 08:57 PM   #10
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[quote=PLUMBER_BILL;1208262]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Well I did it. <snip>



The biggest pita was that I used lead wool instead of pouring the joint. If there wasn't a hard wired smoke detector literally right above my head I would have used my blow torch to melt the lead so it could flow into place. I easily spent twice as much time caulking the lead wool in than the oakum.


In my opinion good that you used lead wool to make the joint. Had you melted lead to pour -- you probably would have burnt through the lead. What temp does lead melt at? that's why solder was used to join lead.

That photo of the old lead bend I posted a couple of weeks ago. That brass piece with the threads was soldered into the bend. No lead to lead joining was the rule.







But Bill, when we fabricate lead shower pans, we solder lead to lead. I've done it. Are you talking about lead to lead with shw. pans?

The trick is to keep the flame moving and not let it stay too long in one place on the lead sheet or it quickly blows a hole in the lead shower pan. We used a torch, but not a turbo torch; you scratch up the lead with a wire fitting brush, apply flux and then solder.

As far as wiping lead joints, I don't have the foggiest idea about that. I've poured a few lead & oakum joints, but I'm no expert at it.
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