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Old 12-15-2017, 03:30 AM   #11
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Single supply system does not call for drop header. I only install drop headers and swing joints on high btu load systems (250,000 btu and up) with dual supplies on boiler. Steam main is directly overhead with a split tie into mains going in both directions to feed home. Improper 2 pipe steam system was tied in attempting to connect steam baseboards. This was all removed and radiators reinstalled with proper sized lines pitching back towards system with drip line installed. System pressure is .5 psi with a 1 lb differential.

Priming and surge issues in system have now been addressed and steam line bounce is under 1 inch on full steam.
Are you fookin kidding me a out the drop header? ? And still waiting to see the system connection at top of boiler

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Old 12-15-2017, 07:50 AM   #12
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Are you fookin kidding me a out the drop header? ? And still waiting to see the system connection at top of boiler

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http://www.slantfin.com/wp-content/u...E-2012-706.pdf


See page 7. We all have different methods to our particular work areas. Drop headers, while effective, are not always necessary. In addition, this is a permitted and inspected install. Figure 2 is our exact install in relation to the particular system in this home. While we may not agree on individual installation, we can both agree the first install is completely improper. The second is to manufacturer specifications.

As far as further pictures, Had i known ahead of time you required particular views, i would have gone to much greater lengths to provide this. Unfortunately, these are all i have. I am returning in 1-2 weeks to skim the system however. Knowing how interested you are in this, i will try to remember to take more photos.


Have a good day.
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Last edited by Dtmack87; 12-15-2017 at 08:15 AM.. Reason: content
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:11 AM   #13
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This is a steam boiler. Installing copper for steam mains is a big no-no. A also never install copper for returns as the acidic nature of the condensate eats the pipe.

If this was a hot water boiler, all piping would be installed in copper.
I don't claim to be a steam wizard. I have worked on a few several years ago, residential in our historic district, none of which were copper of course.

That said I do agree about the acidic level in returns the copper industry will have you believe you can install copper for steam. For sure L I wouldn't feel safe without K.

"Steam-Heating Return Lines
For steam-heating systems, especially return lines, the outstanding corrosion resistance and non-rusting characteristics of copper tube assure trouble-free service and maintenance of traps, valves and other devices. On condensate and hot water return lines, it is recommended that the last two feet before the heating medium should be double the size of the rest of the line. For example, if the return line is 1-inch tube, enlarge it to 2-inch."


https://www.copper.org/applications/...m_systems.html

http://copperplumbing.org.uk/sites/d...-pipelines.pdf

Also with the use of treatments.>>> http://www2.claritywatertech.com/blo...-Are-Corroding
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #14
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There are miles of copper steam and condensate lines on the campus where I work. Many are nearly 100 years old. Most of these are on central steam, maybe that helps them last, I don't know.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:32 PM   #15
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I don't claim to be a steam wizard. I have worked on a few several years ago, residential in our historic district, none of which were copper of course.

That said I do agree about the acidic level in returns the copper industry will have you believe you can install copper for steam. For sure L I wouldn't feel safe without K.

"Steam-Heating Return Lines
For steam-heating systems, especially return lines, the outstanding corrosion resistance and non-rusting characteristics of copper tube assure trouble-free service and maintenance of traps, valves and other devices. On condensate and hot water return lines, it is recommended that the last two feet before the heating medium should be double the size of the rest of the line. For example, if the return line is 1-inch tube, enlarge it to 2-inch."


https://www.copper.org/applications/...m_systems.html

http://copperplumbing.org.uk/sites/d...-pipelines.pdf

Also with the use of treatments.>>> http://www2.claritywatertech.com/blo...-Are-Corroding

I have seen all of this as well. And to be quite honest, i have a few systems that are in apartment buildings, with what is called an old "fireman's system", that when we run the returns in black pipe, they get destroyed. When we switch them to copper, they hold for the life of the boiler.

The only reasoning i have for this is counter-intuitive. The systems condensate returns are horrible. The amount of fresh water fill these boilers use is astronomical due to the leaking underfloor returns. Based on that logic, more fresh water=more hydrogen and oxygen. Introduce that to a cast iron system, you would get more rust and corrosion. right???

The opposite thought, for this particular system, is the amount of fresh water is actually keeping the system cleaner. So the copper is holding up better.....

But than i go back to the original thought of oxygen and black pipe will rust. So it stands to reason, the copper would be better in this situation due to it not rusting and standing up the acidic water better....

And this is exactly what i meant when i posted above that every install is different and requires different rules.

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Old 12-19-2017, 09:51 PM   #16
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Most plumbers I've met shouldn't work on hydronic heating system.

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Old 12-19-2017, 10:27 PM   #17
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Most plumbers I've met shouldn't work on hydronic heating system.

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You are correct,esp when you donít have a boiler license,if someone calls wanting me to work on boiler or piping,I tell them I have no boiler license that is required in ky
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Old 12-20-2017, 04:04 AM   #18
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Don't have them in Illinois, the work I've seen are disgusting. .giving more reasons for sorched air companies to yank them out.

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Old 12-20-2017, 08:10 AM   #19
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Most plumbers I've met shouldn't work on hydronic heating system.

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Couldn't agree with you more. I was trained for years on how to work on these systems. It took many more years in the field, screwing things up and fixing them, to get to where we are today.

Good/exceptional boiler techs are very difficult to find. It is also the reason why i am training my guys as hard as i can on this stuff.

When i go, i do not want the knowledge to go with me.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:50 PM   #20
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Couldn't agree with you more. I was trained for years on how to work on these systems. It took many more years in the field, screwing things up and fixing them, to get to where we are today.

Good/exceptional boiler techs are very difficult to find. It is also the reason why i am training my guys as hard as i can on this stuff.

When i go, i do not want the knowledge to go with me.
I would love to be your helper for a day or week. My little boiler license could use the experience.
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