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Unread 09-22-2019, 12:02 AM   #1
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Default Non-modern fill valve/ballcock supply line connections

I started this because I had a helper friday and was explaining how the rubber cone shaped washer is used with flared 3/8" OD copper for supply lines. I have done this exactly once however with a one piece toilet that would have been hell any other way and the old line was done the same. The supply line was 2" long.



The other, even older method is essentially the same as a tubular trap pipe connection. 1/2" copper(5/8" OD) or a 3/8" IPS nipple is inserted into the shank of the ball cock and a nut around the supply squeezes a square cut o-ring into the end of the shank which is reemed to make a ~45 degree bevel. Basically a gauge glass seal if you know what that is.


Do any of you use these now past connection methods? Seems like it's either flex lines or tubes with preformed ends.












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Unread 09-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #2
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I worked for a company back in 2005-2007 where the boss was an old school plumber who learned in the 1950's how to cut cast iron soil pipe with a hammer and chisel.


While working there, we worked in a lot of the Palm Beach mansions on the ocean that were built in the 1920's & 1930's. So of course the homes had copper waste arms for sinks, cast iron stacks, etc.

We used to use the chrome 3/8" supply lines {like the ones used for lavs} and we used them for W/C's. A nut and ferrule of course at the angle stop, but at the other end, a brass friction washer and a step rubber washer where the supply line inserted into the shank of the ballcock. This was tightened with a brass nut; not the plastic ones that come with toilets and ballcock packages. We used to use sweat stops, and we used to solder chrome plated brass p-traps as well. Really old school which I like.


Now on my own, I admit I'll use the flex supply lines for faucets but I'll usually use a ridgid chrome supply line for W/C's and put some nice-looking 45 degree bends on it.


But I am like you, I lament the flex connectors, and compression stuff which makes it easier for handymen and DIY's. Then these people brag that why call a plumber since the stuff is all sold at the home improvement centers.
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Unread 09-22-2019, 01:05 PM   #3
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But I am like you, I lament the flex connectors, and compression stuff which makes it easier for handymen and DIY's. Then these people brag that why call a plumber since the stuff is all sold at the home improvement centers.



I disagree. The flexible supply lines have a better track record in my book. But many of our floors/walls are slightly flexible. That can cause issues with hard supply lines, usually at the 3/8" or 1/2" compression joint. I usually use a braided stainless flexible supply line from wolverine brass. Yes the same ones can be bought in a store but that doesn't mean people are correct in saying it's not worth calling a plumber, for a number of reasons.


First, we understand the correct/industry standard way of doing things. There is no instruction booklet to what we do. At least, I have yet to see a comprehensive one. Knowledge for each individual situation is what's important. Knowledge of what will be a reliable configuration.



Now a days this knowledge can easily be found on the internet, this forum being a shining example of sites devoted to helping the diy community while making the site owner a little wealthier. Some might say at the expense of plumbers like you and I.



Second, we have all the parts and know exactly which ones to use. Essentially my van is a rolling plumbing supply section of a hardware store. Just in the figure of time/labor it's worth it for the butcher to keep cutting meat and to call a plumber to replace his faucet. What would take the plumber 2hrs to do might take the butcher 6hrs because he has never done it before. It's more cost effective for the butcher to process the animals while the plumber handles the pipes.


This old timey setup is usurped by the fact that we have extreme wealth gaps. Those in the middle, aka not in need of assistance are usually a good ways ahead of those in poverty. The wealthy are considerably ahead of both groups. There are certain milestones which do more than put you over a line, they catapult you over a financial wall. A car for instance is one. If you don't have a reliable car you likely can't expect to be middle class in it's entirety. You could live in the city and walk everywhere but that requires a higher cost of living and a lack of the comforts one might associate with being middle class like a house, yard, garage etc.


I completely understand why those lower than middle class choose to spend 10hrs and 50$ doing what might take a plumber 2hrs at a much higher cost to them. If they only make 10$/hr at a fast food place why would they call a plumber who charges 85$/hr? This person has much more time than money. You as a business owner have more money than time so you make the opposite decision. You might hire someone to regrade your driveway for 2000$ instead of buying a 500$ load of gravel and doing it yourself.


Besides, I bet many of you who don't like the diy people still do some of your own electrical and mechanical work. For instance, tango is constantly pissed that customers diy stuff but how much work has he done to his own vehicles when time allows? Heck diy automotive is even worse than diy plumbing!!! He is putting the lives of others on the road at risk!!!!!




But I digress, this isn't a proffesional vs diy thread.










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Unread 09-23-2019, 08:28 AM   #4
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Agree with Skoronesa, I've preferred ss flex lines for decades. Much less leak prone. If it's a multimillion dollar house, then sure I'll install a rigid connector and will use a tubing bender but a flex connector is quicker and much less leak prone.

And I agree on I don't care about sub middle class 'customers' that will spend their entire weekend trying to avoid hiring a plumber. They are of no use to me. Sharkbites and flex connectors help weed them out before we ever get a call.

I'm of no use to a Rolls Royce dealership or Learjet so it's not like I'm discriminating.
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Unread 09-23-2019, 09:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post

Besides, I bet many of you who don't like the diy people still do some of your own electrical and mechanical work. For instance, tango is constantly pissed that customers diy stuff but how much work has he done to his own vehicles when time allows? Heck diy automotive is even worse than diy plumbing!!! He is putting the lives of others on the road at risk!!!!!




But I digress, this isn't a proffesional vs diy thread.



.

You have it wrong about me. I don't care people who do their own plumbing. They can do it right or they can screw it up all they want. The problem with that is they screw it up for the next home owner who's going to buy that bric a brac house without knowing their health is at risk. What I don't like are non plumbers and those who don't have a licence who do plumbing for a profit ; Hacks, GC's, next door neighbor, the fake plumber, DIY house flippers, etc. I may not like it but I also love it because they make me money, it's my bread and butter.

You want to talk about fixing your own cars, You fix your own car too! I'll tell you what I did my own alignment at the garage because they didn't know how to do a solid axle! Another time a friend and I mounted our own tires at a garage because he couldn't do it. My last alignment I had to show the young mechanic which bolts and nuts to adjust because the first time round they were 2-3 mechanics on it and they didn't even touch those bolts and when I got the truck back it wasn't aligned properly and the bolts still loose. I had specified on the work order to do it!
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Unread 09-23-2019, 11:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
I disagree. The flexible supply lines have a better track record in my book. But many of our floors/walls are slightly flexible. That can cause issues with hard supply lines, usually at the 3/8" or 1/2" compression joint. I usually use a braided stainless flexible supply line from wolverine brass. Yes the same ones can be bought in a store but that doesn't mean people are correct in saying it's not worth calling a plumber, for a number of reasons.




.

ill disagree with you on that...solid supply lines wont leak if installed correctly, and they will hold up for 50+ years...I never had a call back for a leaky solid supply installed with brass nuts..
now the SS flexible lines even have printed on the install label to change them out in 10 years..and the plastic nut ones might not last that long..
yes they are much easier to install and I have used them for the economy job or if the area to install is so tight its not worth the fight to get a solid supply installed...
but for the last 100 years till they were invented solid supply lines were installed and some still up and running leak free...
dont blame flimsy floors or fixture installs for leaking solid supplies...do the right install and have a solid fixture to connect to...
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Unread 09-23-2019, 11:17 PM   #7
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You have it wrong about me. I don't care people who do their own plumbing. ......What I don't like are non plumbers and those who don't have a licence who do plumbing for a profit.....

You want to talk about fixing your own cars, You fix your own car too!....



Yeah, I mischaracterized your feelings on diy.


And also yes, I do work on my own vehicles, that one was sarcasm to point out the hypocriticism of some of the other guys. They will change braking components on their (HEAVY)vehicles they drive on public roads at high speeds, sometimes pulling trailers. But if a homeowner changes a shower valve with sharkbites they act like the house will crumble and children will die.










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Unread 09-24-2019, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Yeah, I mischaracterized your feelings on diy.


And also yes, I do work on my own vehicles, that one was sarcasm to point out the hypocriticism of some of the other guys. They will change braking components on their (HEAVY)vehicles they drive on public roads at high speeds, sometimes pulling trailers. But if a homeowner changes a shower valve with sharkbites they act like the house will crumble and children will die.










.



if you know what you are doing( fixing your own vehicle) there is nothing wrong with that, if you take a guess on fixing your own vehicle thats the problem..
when I work on my own vehicles I spend take a few extra moments to make sure its done right..out of high school I worked in an auto shop and saw plenty of faulty work come back ( not work done by me)and people were dam lucky not to have been killed...just because a shop is certified in repairs means nothing about getting it done correct and safe...
when I work on my vehicles they are mine and its me behind the wheel, so I want it 110% right..most shops could care less and just want to make $$$, so they slam the new parts on and send it out the door,,,
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Unread 09-24-2019, 06:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ShtRnsdownhill View Post
if you know what you are doing( fixing your own vehicle) there is nothing wrong with that, if you take a guess on fixing your own vehicle thats the problem..
when I work on my own vehicles I spend take a few extra moments to make sure its done right..out of high school I worked in an auto shop and saw plenty of faulty work come back ( not work done by me)and people were dam lucky not to have been killed...just because a shop is certified in repairs means nothing about getting it done correct and safe...
when I work on my vehicles they are mine and its me behind the wheel, so I want it 110% right..most shops could care less and just want to make $$$, so they slam the new parts on and send it out the door,,,





I am glad we agree! Some plumbers don't care so they slap it together and when the homeowner calls a month later they don't answer. And just because you aren't a plumber doesn't mean you won't spend a couple extra minutes making sure it is done correctly.


Then you add in helpful, informative websites like this one and you can really see how diy plumbing is within the reach of most homeowners.








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Unread 09-24-2019, 09:18 PM   #10
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Nostalgia break:


Does any one else remember when water closet supply lines were 3/8" chrome pipe
with "candle wicking" wrapped around the pipe and held in place by the brass closet supply nut? Mostly on wall hung tanks with 14" rough bowls. Candle wicking also was wrapped around the flush el and secured with a 2" brass nut. Some of the really old tanks were wood with a sheet metal liner.



Somehow it didn't leak.
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