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Old 06-02-2019, 04:40 PM   #81
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Because silicone smears off when installing it and stains the sink.

how does clear silicone stain a sink? what is the sink made of, I have never seen silicone stain anything, but have seen yellow stains from the oil in putty...
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Old 06-02-2019, 04:44 PM   #82
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Like I said and ShtRnsdownhill, poor installation. These guys have no tools and are hand tight by 18 year old. Employers don't supply tools and silicone and materials like they should. Kids are in a race and pushed to the max or they're laid off.

many many moons ago when I worked for a guy that had a few crews going, there was one helper who used a big ratchet to bolt down toilets and to tighten tank bolts, I lost count of how many toilets he cracked because he had no clue on what he was doing..I left the company before I knew what happened to him....
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:53 PM   #83
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how does clear silicone stain a sink? what is the sink made of, I have never seen silicone stain anything, but have seen yellow stains from the oil in putty...
Corian sinks and sinks are made of stone dust of some kind. For example some become darker on contact of silicone and I haven't found a way to remove it. it feels like it absorbs. I know my own black sink stained on contact. I put masking tape outlining the faucet when I put mine in. Then customer always inspect a new faucet install and if it's not perfect watch out for the pitch fork they've got stored away.
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:19 PM   #84
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Corian sinks and sinks are made of stone dust of some kind. For example some become darker on contact of silicone and I haven't found a way to remove it. it feels like it absorbs. I know my own black sink stained on contact. I put masking tape outlining the faucet when I put mine in. Then customer always inspect a new faucet install and if it's not perfect watch out for the pitch fork they've got stored away.

I never had that problem , I use this, its alot more pricey now from when I first bought it, but it seems to clean up silicone GREAT with no residue..
https://www.amazon.com/Guardsman-Pro...s%2C154&sr=8-3


just use a terry cloth towel/rag and wet it with the fluid and it cleans the silicone away..
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:55 PM   #85
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Here's another home made tool.

This is for another type of shower drain. I've been using shower drains with a hex nut underneath but they keep stripping. I'm starting to use these drains. I did have a few calls where they were loose. I think the plumbers only used their hand to tighten them. I know the last one was a true pirate. I never saw a plumber using a special tool like I have. This drain has more threads and I can apply more torque.

I made a tool so I can tighten it from the top on a service call or turn the tool upside down and pull on it hard from underneath so I can screw the other half downstairs. It had to have the possibility to be as long as I wanted. Sometimes reaching deep through the floor joists and ceiling below.



My manager made a very similar tool but instead of a socket it is a foot long 1" pipe.






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Old 06-03-2019, 11:10 PM   #86
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I use silicone aswell... there is a place and time for putty however, I've read that putty can attack plastics so I steer clear when using it on plastics... really I'll use silicone on everything... even setting brass or plastic p.o's and sometimes when setting a basket strainer in a stainless sink where the beveled part of the sink is more of a bowl shape and there is no way to get a good seal without putty or silicone..

Never really thought of it for using it on push fit gaskets thanks for the pro tip



Regular putty doesn't "attack" the plastic anymore than silicone caulk does. Regular putty is filler combined with a petroleum oil which will act as a solvent on some plastics until it evaporates leaving hard putty behind. Silicone caulk is silicone with a solvent that also will dissolve some plastics. The solvent is what makes the silicone stick to the plastic. If you didn't have a solvent to partially dissolve the surface you want to glue than nothing would stick together.


Another way to look at it is this. Clear pvc primer is all solvent(Xylene, xylol, acetone, methylethylketone). If you take clear primer and put it on pvc pipe it will make the surface soft for a bit until the solvent evaporates leaving just the pvc again. The solvents dissolve the plastic like water and dirt make mud. Pvc glue is basically pvc primer with some finely ground pvc pipe materials so after you apply the glue and the solvent evaporates it leaves behind the ground up pvc material in the gap.


If you just take a scoop of dirt and put it on some other dirt they dont get mixed together and you just have a pile of dirt on another pile. If you add some solvent like water than the two different clumps of dirt mix together and when the water/solvent evaporates you are left with one solid dirt pile.


Non-staining plumbers putty isn't petroleum based, it is silicone based. It is basically silicone lubricant with finely ground filler. There is no solvent so it won't "attack" plastic. I would prefer that over caulk. I don't like to use caulk because it makes things more difficult to fix when it does leak which it will still do even with the best silicone caulk.










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Old 06-03-2019, 11:19 PM   #87
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My manager made a very similar tool but instead of a socket it is a foot long 1" pipe.






.
I made it so I can adjust the length of it. It's always an issue working in joists, closets and such. It took several hours of thinking with coming up with a simple idea that the extensions would click together and not pull off.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:34 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Regular putty doesn't "attack" the plastic anymore than silicone caulk does. Regular putty is filler combined with a petroleum oil which will act as a solvent on some plastics until it evaporates leaving hard putty behind. Silicone caulk is silicone with a solvent that also will dissolve some plastics. The solvent is what makes the silicone stick to the plastic. If you didn't have a solvent to partially dissolve the surface you want to glue than nothing would stick together.


Another way to look at it is this. Clear pvc primer is all solvent(Xylene, xylol, acetone, methylethylketone). If you take clear primer and put it on pvc pipe it will make the surface soft for a bit until the solvent evaporates leaving just the pvc again. The solvents dissolve the plastic like water and dirt make mud. Pvc glue is basically pvc primer with some finely ground pvc pipe materials so after you apply the glue and the solvent evaporates it leaves behind the ground up pvc material in the gap.


If you just take a scoop of dirt and put it on some other dirt they dont get mixed together and you just have a pile of dirt on another pile. If you add some solvent like water than the two different clumps of dirt mix together and when the water/solvent evaporates you are left with one solid dirt pile.


Non-staining plumbers putty isn't petroleum based, it is silicone based. It is basically silicone lubricant with finely ground filler. There is no solvent so it won't "attack" plastic. I would prefer that over caulk. I don't like to use caulk because it makes things more difficult to fix when it does leak which it will still do even with the best silicone caulk.










.
I believe you are wrong about how silicone connects to a base material, I dont see silicone " dissolving" the surface of metal, stone , glass , ceramic and so on to make a seal...
nor does putty attach plastics.....
putty dries up over time and powders away..the issue with plastic and putty is the thin plastic cracks before compressing the putty and pushing the excess out of whatever drain top your trying to put together, where silicone before curing is very easy to squeeze out...
the plastic cracks or breaks, it isnt dissolved...
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:23 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShtRnsdownhill View Post
I believe you are wrong about how silicone connects to a base material, I dont see silicone " dissolving" the surface of metal, stone , glass , ceramic and so on to make a seal...
nor does putty attach plastics.....
putty dries up over time and powders away..the issue with plastic and putty is the thin plastic cracks before compressing the putty and pushing the excess out of whatever drain top your trying to put together, where silicone before curing is very easy to squeeze out...
the plastic cracks or breaks, it isnt dissolved...


https://www.explainthatstuff.com/adhesives.html



"In some cases, adhesives can make much stronger chemical bonds with the materials they touch. For example, if you use certain glues on certain plastics, the glue and the plastic actually merge together to form a very strong chemical bond—they effectively form a new chemical compound at the join. That process is called chemisorption.



Absorption and chemisorption are chemical connections between the glue and the surface. Glues can also form physical (mechanical) bonds with the surface they're sticking to. Suppose the surface is porous (full of holes). The glue can seep into those holes and grip through them, like a climber's fingers grabbing holes in a rock face. That's called the mechanical theory of adhesives."




What I said was that putty doesn't dissolve plastic anymore than silicone because I disagreed with his argument that silicone was better because it didn't attack the plastic like putty did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomthirst View Post
I use silicone aswell... there is a place and time for putty however, I've read that putty can attack plastics so I steer clear when using it on plastics...


Quote:
Originally Posted by skoronesa View Post
Regular putty doesn't "attack" the plastic anymore than silicone caulk does. Regular putty is filler combined with a petroleum oil which will act as a solvent on some plastics until it evaporates leaving hard putty behind. Silicone caulk is silicone with a solvent that also will dissolve some plastics. The solvent is what makes the silicone stick to the plastic. If you didn't have a solvent to partially dissolve the surface you want to glue than nothing would stick together.
.



I was wrong to say that last sentence. Obviously there is mechanical cohesion as is described in that link. But I am sure we have all seen silicone and other caulks peel right off of metal, ceramic, and other smooth nonporous surfaces.


I know what you mean about the putty being difficult to squeeze out. We don't use plastic pop-ups, sink baskets, or other tailpieces, we only use metal, but the same can still be an issue, especially with thin sink baskets. My normal technique for a kitchen sink basket is to put a 3/8" bead of putty, pull/push it down tight by hand, scrape out the extra that squeezes out below, put on the rubber seal and basket, tighten the nut most of the way. Then while I do something else some more will squeeze out and then I finish tightening.


I use putty instead of silicone simply because it is easier to get off later if need be and either one can make a good seal. That's just the way we do it here, I am not saying your way is wrong, it's just not the way we choose to do it. As long as it doesn't leak and the customer is happy nothing else matters really.









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Old 06-04-2019, 05:25 PM   #90
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Also, I would like to see you set a toilet in silicone caulk like you can with putty








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