ILPlumber

I agree.

I make PVC look just as artsy as C.I.

PVC is much slicker than C.I.

There are long radius fittings in PVC as well as C.I.
I mean, come on, how long does the radius need to be?

I can install PVC 3 times faster than H&S C.I. and make it look just as good.

C.I. of the 50's was good ****. C.I. of present day is ****. "Be careful caulking that joint! You will break the hub!"

I run H&S were requested. If I have my choice it will be schedule 40 PVC.

What I'm saying can be summed up in 2 letters

Killertoiletspider

I don't think I've made any intelligent posts.

PVC is a bit too noisy, keep it.

TheMaster

Yeah I get calls daily because its so noisy. You can wrap an upstairs to downstairs drain with lead or fur the wall out and add insulation. Most of the noise from pvc is from allowing the drywall to touch the pipe....like fools do trying to stuff a 3" pipe in a 2x4 wall.

RealLivePlumber

Well, since you took the liberty.....

Listen wiseass, know your facts before you open your mouth, this way you won't look like such an idiot.

I have installed maybe 60' of C.I. in my 10 year career. Interior stacks in new houses you could never dream of working in. Architect insisted upon it due to noise issues. (you do know who the architect is, don't you? He is the guy on the job in the suit.)

I never said, or insinuated that I used CI, or was more professional, or was on a high horse. I use PVC, exclusively, and foam core at that. I am proud of it. (You do know that foam core is quieter, because of the foam core?) And, at 38, I am not an old timer. (Am I?) As far as running circles,

Now why don't you go out and play with your guns in the woods.

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RealLivePlumber
You can make it happen, you can watch it happen, or you can wonder wtf happened.
Phil Harris 2009

Christina

Well no, Home Depot is going to sell them something more like this... and this is suppose to be better than what PVC they could sale them? "I think" on your everyday residential that PVC is just fine IMHO.
(By the way the smilies are from not knowing whether to laugh or cry when I stumble across this) By plumbing a house in cast iron, it does not guarantee that Home Depot or Blowe's can-not make a sale!

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ILPlumber

Here is some reading to support your statement and educate on foam core pipe. Enjoy.


The foam, created by a blowing agent (azobiscarbonamide),
replaces virgin PVC compound in the core, or middle layer, of
the pipe. Depending upon the extrusion set up, the primary
machine(s) feeds PVC compound into a feed or Y block, which
separates the PVC melt into two streams. A second extruder
feeds the foamed PVC compound into the same block through
a channel between what will become the inner and outer layer
(skin). The three layer structure is then brought together in the
die.
Because the foam core pipe wall thickness is the same as a solid
wall PVC pipe, a manufacturer produces substantially more
product from the same amount of PVC resin. On four inch pipe
running up to 1,200 lbs./hr.*, a foam core line can produce
800-1,000 lineal feet of pipe versus 600 lineal ft. of solid PVC
pipe at an equal output rate. Since the foam layer is 18 to 40%
lower density than solid PVC, weight savings for foam core PVC
pipe range from 10 to 35% lower than equal length and size of
solid wall PVC pipe.
Foam Processing Systems
Presently three processes are commercially available for production
of foam core pipe. There are two systems which use two extruders.
One developed by Alphacan and is known as the Bipeau process,
while the second is manufactured and marketed by American
Maplan. The third system uses three extruders and the Genca
die.
Figure 1 is a diagram of the Bipeau extruder configuration. The
Bipeau (two skin) process was developed by Alphacan, a subsidiary
of Atochem S.A. The Bipeau system is fed by two extruders
connected to a Y block die. The foam core extruder can be
smaller than the skin extruder. The Bipeau Y block, as seen in
Figure 2,divides the solid skin melt into two streams, which
cover the foam melt from the second extruder. The extruders are
at right angles to the feed, as seen in Figure 1. The process
required two dies - one for pipe diameters below 4” and one for
pipe diameters above 4”. Recent improvements by Alphacan
have minimized the need for separate tooling. The largest pipe
currently made by this process is 12”. Plans are underway to
increase this to 15” - 18” shortly.
When first introduced, the Bipeau system gave a weight savings
of 25% over solid wall PVC pipe. It also claimed output increases
of 20%. These claims have been verified by several manufacturers
using the Bipeau system. Plans are underway to further decrease
weight and increase output.
The American Maplan system generally uses two equal size
extruders with their foam core die assembly. This assembly
requires additional floor space versus the Bipeau system.
However, a smaller version of their system is equivalent in floor
space compared to the Bipeau system. This particular system
uses a Cincinnati Milacron 62 mm. twin screw extruder to
Foam Core PVC Pipe
Presented at SPE Vinyl RETEC 91 * Normal rates average 1,050 to 1,100 lbs./hr.
provide the skin. The coextrusion block design differs from
that of the Bipeau system, specifically in internal construction.
The angle of entry into the Y block for Maplan’s triple wall
tooling (Figure 3) is an acute angle. This system is patented for
American Maplan. Maplan claims comparable weight savings
and output versus the Bipeau system.
The three extruder system is offered by Kraus Maffei and
Battenfeld Extrusions Technik with Genca tooling. This system
(Figure 4) combines three extruders, each independently
producing a separate layer, eliminating the need for the feedback
flow divider. The key to this system is the die, made by
Genca, a division of General Cable Co. The die has three flow
channels that separate the melt streams and does not require
spider supports.
Analysis of the Processes
The Bipeau and Maplan systems are similar in design and
weight savings, and are considered simple to operate. Since the
melt forming the inner and outer skin comes from the same
extruder, it is the same melt temperature, ensuring that the
viscosity of the extrudate is the same. In the three extruder
system, opponents claim there is less control of the melts,
while proponents claim better melt control and improved
weld line strength between the layers, which yields a stronger
product. A distinct disadvantage of Genca tooling is its inability
to process tin stabilized PVC foam compounds. The use of tin
stabilized PVC compounds has resulted in unacceptable
production, as the tin compounds cause severe corrosion of
the flow channels of the die. This limits the foam compounds
to non-tin stabilized formulations.
Another distinct difference between the three systems is the
amount of floor space required for each. The Bipeau system
requires approximately 250 square feet. The Maplan system
could require up to 450 square feet, depending on the size of
the extruders, feedblock and die package. Surprisingly, the three
extruder system takes up the least floor space - 200 square
feet. This compact set-up is accomplished by positioning the
third extruder along the sizing tank (Figure 4). Neither system
requires anything special in the way of downstream equipment.
Depending on the size of the foam core PVC pipe produced,
longer water tanks may be necessary, since the foam core is an
insulator, and is harder to cool than solid PVC.
An advantage to the Bipeau system is that the choice of the
size and manufacturer of the extruders used with the Bipeau
die is left to the customer. Aplacan’s system is patented, and
processors using this technology must pay a licensing fee and
a royalty based on a percentage of sales. The Maplan system
does not require any fees, but requires that American Maplan
equipment is purchased. Details of the Genca system were not
available. Table 1 summarrizes the costs of the Bipeau and
Maplan systems.
Advantages of Foam Core
The cellular structure of the core PVC layer is the key to producing
foam core PVC pipe of quality. To develop maximum
savings and physical properties, the core must have uniform
cell structure. A feature of foam core pipe is the unique “I-Beam”
structure it assumes. The skin is designed to take the initial
load, while the foam gives rigidity and maintains the shape of
the pipe under load. This is demonstrated in Figure 5. The pipe
on the left is typical of solid wall PVC under load and the type
of distortion normally expected. The foam core pipe on the
right, under equal load, distributes the load more evenly and
does not show the same amount of distortion. This is due to
the “I-Beam” structure of the cellular PVC pipe.
Aside from the weight advantage, it is believed that the foam pipe
has a flex life up to ten years longer than conventional PVC
pipe. The foam core’s insulating properties act to reduce noise,
which would be beneficial in large buildings. The insulating
foam core may aslo increase the pipe’s service temperature
range.Taking the differences between foam core PVC pipe and
solid wall PVC into account, producers agree that foam core
pipe is a better product than solid wall PVC pipe.
Standards

GREENPLUM

That was more of a general comment , not totally directed to you, I figured you would pick up on that. Sorry you took it so personal.

TheMaster

I dont care what the producers think....i bet they do when they can make more product. I'm in the real world and in the real world solid core is better. noise can be dealt with in other ways if you know anything about how sound travels.

Christina

thank You Il!!

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TheMaster

If its so strong why cant you use it for pressure. Think about it and you'll eventually get it.