ventless gas appliances - Page 3 - Plumbing Zone

smellslike$tome · 11-19-2009, 07:53 PM

Seriously though, I think I have the answer I was looking for.

Just because it's ventless doesn't mean there are no combustion gases. Someone has determined that they are emitted at acceptable levels and so these devices have been approved. Some people are especially sensitve to it and so they have a bigger impact on them than others. I don't think I would want one in my house even though they don't seem to bother me.

rocksteady · 11-19-2009, 09:36 PM

One thing that came to mind but is probably not realted is the odor additive in the gas. Just last week the Gas Co. in northern California released a statement that they had added too much odor agent to the gas and customers were complaining of gas leaks when they didn't have them. They would smell odors when using their stoves and other appliances. Like I said, probably a long shot but it just popped into my head when I read your post.

Paul

PlumberDave · 11-19-2009, 11:30 PM

the ones I've seen are called catalyst heaters only exhaust is water vapor.some type of embeded fiber.

RealLivePlumber · 11-20-2009, 07:37 AM

A friend of mine used to own rent subsidised rental properties in an inner city. He had 30 or 40 units. Rowhomes.

Many of them heated the place by running the 4 burner range, all 4 burners, all day, all night. When it got real cold out, the oven was lit, and the oven door open. Ridiculous. Kids all over the place.

Alot of these units had oil fired boilers. Oil man ain't putting it in the tank without $$$. Gas Co. can not shut you off if its cold out.

Just my .2

JK949 · 11-20-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocksteady

One thing that came to mind but is probably not realted is the odor additive in the gas. Just last week the Gas Co. in northern California released a statement that they had added too much odor agent to the gas and customers were complaining of gas leaks when they didn't have them. They would smell odors when using their stoves and other appliances. Like I said, probably a long shot but it just popped into my head when I read your post.Paul

Interesting, this year we got a letter telling us not to rely on the odor in the gas, as there maybe too little of it.

Christina · 11-21-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING

Bull****.
Those are intermittent use. People don't fall asleep in front of their stove, go to bed with them on. I'm talking about continous flame for heating.
And, there's a vent hood directly above them, whether it's recirculatory or not.
Same principle of the freestanding kerosene heater ~ oxygen consuming and air tight rooms start losing their % of oxygen levels to sustain human life.

OK, I am tired so I am not going to write an entire novel. But, I have had several families that when the heaters don't work they will leave the kitchen oven on and cracked to heat the house until the heater can be fixed. Had a new employee that was doing that a few years ago- he couldn't figure out why him & his wife were so sick all the time. When the CO test was ran, my father said it was a miracle they both weren't dead from the CO level in the trailer. So, in that, some people do leave stoves on and open to heat small residences for means of heat when the regular heater goes out.

smellslike$tome · 11-21-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christina

OK, I am tired so I am not going to write an entire novel. But, I have had several families that when the heaters don't work they will leave the kitchen oven on and cracked to heat the house until the heater can be fixed. Had a new employee that was doing that a few years ago- he couldn't figure out why him & his wife were so sick all the time. When the CO test was ran, my father said it was a miracle they both weren't dead from the CO level in the trailer. So, in that, some people do leave stoves on and open to heat small residences for means of heat when the regular heater goes out.

Clearly though those appliances are not designed for that purpose. Cooking for an hour or even two is nothing at all like running every burner with the door open to the oven 24 hours a day.

This thread is eye opening for me. I've received this complaint in the past but usually associated with gas logs.

I think it's time for me to finally break down and invest in that CO sniffer as well as a gas sniffer. I know we talked about the gas sniffer recently in another thread but who likes what brands/models and what sort of cost should I expect for both the CO and the ng. Will gas sniffers only detect a particular type of gas or will they sniff both ng and propane. Yes, I can do my own research but I value personal experience from my professional plumbing brothers and sisters.

What would you expect the solutions/options to be for someone who has a ventless appliance that is causing them some unwanted physical symptoms? Obviously, we could remove the appliance and terminate the line. Does anyone have any other possibility that might allow them to keep the appliance but relieve the symptoms?

Pipedoc · 11-21-2009, 10:40 AM

Smells, the gas sniffers will detect something like ten different combustible gasses.

amh112181 · 11-22-2009, 12:31 AM

Ask if there is any work being done (painting staining etc) The unvented wall heater will be bring out a smell of the chemicals in the air.

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 11-22-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smellslike$tome

I think it's time for me to finally break down and invest in that CO sniffer as well as a gas sniffer.

There's nothing wrong with this idea at all, but spend the good money for one. Don't buy a cheap one.

Also, whenever you have a real dangerous situation, back yourself up with the local gas utility company and let them come out with their testers.

They get theirs calibrated monthly, they are around $1800 that detect 200+ different situations, even has a pump built-in to suck in.

The above reasoning is what has kept me from buying one because a lawyer could rip you apart on determining how effective or accurate one of those are that either didn't cost a lot of money or wasn't calibrated correctly.

Meaning, it might overlook something because another known gas/fume in the air is masking it, or moist air, heat, humidity condition. Lots of variables I dont to have my nutz on a table for someone to smash when something goes BOOM! Or something gets worse and wasn't detected.

The gas utility company has deeper pockets than I'll ever have.

11-19-2009, 09:36 PM	#22
rocksteady Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Paso Robles, Ca. Posts: 1,158 My Photos	One thing that came to mind but is probably not realted is the odor additive in the gas. Just last week the Gas Co. in northern California released a statement that they had added too much odor agent to the gas and customers were complaining of gas leaks when they didn't have them. They would smell odors when using their stoves and other appliances. Like I said, probably a long shot but it just popped into my head when I read your post. Paul __________________ Rocksteady Plumbing Serving San Luis Obispo County (805) 237-7625 (ROCK) http://rocksteadyplumbing.com/

11-20-2009, 07:37 AM	#24
RealLivePlumber Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 1,183 My Photos	A friend of mine used to own rent subsidised rental properties in an inner city. He had 30 or 40 units. Rowhomes. Many of them heated the place by running the 4 burner range, all 4 burners, all day, all night. When it got real cold out, the oven was lit, and the oven door open. Ridiculous. Kids all over the place. Alot of these units had oil fired boilers. Oil man ain't putting it in the tank without $$$. Gas Co. can not shut you off if its cold out. Just my .2 __________________ RealLivePlumber You can make it happen, you can watch it happen, or you can wonder wtf happened. Phil Harris 2009

11-21-2009, 10:40 AM	#28
Pipedoc Trust me. I'm a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 929 My Photos	Smells, the gas sniffers will detect something like ten different combustible gasses. __________________ My proposal for a 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution. "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States."

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11-19-2009, 07:53 PM	#21
smellslike$tome residential service Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,571 My Photos	Seriously though, I think I have the answer I was looking for. Just because it's ventless doesn't mean there are no combustion gases. Someone has determined that they are emitted at acceptable levels and so these devices have been approved. Some people are especially sensitve to it and so they have a bigger impact on them than others. I don't think I would want one in my house even though they don't seem to bother me.

11-19-2009, 11:30 PM	#23
PlumberDave Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 143 My Photos	the ones I've seen are called catalyst heaters only exhaust is water vapor.some type of embeded fiber.

11-22-2009, 12:31 AM	#29
amh112181 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lisbon Falls, Maine Posts: 16 My Photos	Ask if there is any work being done (painting staining etc) The unvented wall heater will be bring out a smell of the chemicals in the air.