Navian #1 - Page 2 - Plumbing Zone

ZL700 · 03-19-2010, 11:26 AM

No reason to install the remote, especially when it is outside. The DIP switches would control the internal/external circulation feature without the remote, along with temps, but only in 10 degree increments without remote.

Show me a tankless without DIP switches please?

You didn't expect a condensing unit with an extra heat exchanger both made with stainless not to be heavier?

The remote is sandwiched inside Styrofoam, what did you do drop the unit on it or step on it?

Asparta · 03-20-2010, 01:20 AM

The Naivien is a great unit, but I would only buy commercial units. If they are setup correctly, and installed/plumbed correctly there will be no issues with the working's of the unit. I have put in 6 of these and no call backs. I am in Canada too, so the groundwater in winter is FREEZING ASS COLD! Still no issues. Don't sell a tankless unless the input is 199,000 BTU or higher. It's just the way they work. You don't size these as minimum requirments. You size for bigger than what you need. Dip switches get set and then y0ou never touch them again! Also, you don't set the dip switches for "external recirculation". That doesn't mean recirc line. You just ahve to turn the switch in behind the pump on the diverting valve. It says "IN" and "OUT" on it. Turn it, and that's all you have to do for re-circ line.
I really wish ppl would stop blaming these units, and start blaming poor installations.

Just my 2 cents

Asparta · 03-20-2010, 01:33 AM

Also, when setting up any tankless, for one thing, avoid using them if you are on a well, also, when filling the unit/system, get all air out from available bleed tubes, and turn on all hot faucets and let unit run 10 minutes. This allows the unit to "learn" the maximum flow it needs to make up.
Also, you are not allowed hotter water than 170 degrees in a drainage system, and by code not hotter than 120 degrees to a shower. So 120 degrees setting on the unit is plenty.

smellslike$tome · 03-23-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL700

No reason to install the remote, especially when it is outside. The DIP switches would control the internal/external circulation feature without the remote, along with temps, but only in 10 degree increments without remote.

Show me a tankless without DIP switches please?

You didn't expect a condensing unit with an extra heat exchanger both made with stainless not to be heavier?

The remote is sandwiched inside Styrofoam, what did you do drop the unit on it or step on it?

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Maybe you know something Navien doesn't. Enlighten me, just exactly how do you program the timer for the external recirc without the remote or do you suggest that the recirc should just run continuously until it finally burns up? Navien seems to think it is necessary according to their published owner's manual. Tell me why a ho would want to spend that sort of money for something that claims to be 98% efficient, only to turn around and throw every bit of that efficiency away (plus some since not even a tank burns all the time) by continuously heating and recirculating water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

With respect to it being big and bulky, well, it is. The CR 240A weighs 86 pounds vs. Noritz NRC 111 which weighs 74 lbs and the CR 240 A is 1.4" narrower but is 3.8" taller and 6.5" deeper.

As for the styrofoam encased remote, when I opened the box there was something very similar to the pic that Tankless posted, staring up at me. It was busted right out of the box. Now maybe you just toss those pesky remotes aside since they are so unnecessary, but my customer paid for it and she will receive it. Insult my intelligence all you want, it doesn't change the fact that this is an inferior product.

P.S. with respect to the recirc, I'm still not even sure it will operate at all until the timer is set. If I'm Navien I want to promote the heck out of my recirc system but I certainly don't want it running 24/7 which would result in a lot of unhappy people, if not from premature pump failure then certainly when they see their gas bill. Maybe it can, I'm not sure, but I'm betting no.

smellslike$tome · 03-23-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asparta

The Naivien is a great unit, but I would only buy commercial units. If they are setup correctly, and installed/plumbed correctly there will be no issues with the working's of the unit. I have put in 6 of these and no call backs. I am in Canada too, so the groundwater in winter is FREEZING ASS COLD! Still no issues. Don't sell a tankless unless the input is 199,000 BTU or higher. It's just the way they work. You don't size these as minimum requirments. You size for bigger than what you need. Dip switches get set and then y0ou never touch them again! Also, you don't set the dip switches for "external recirculation". That doesn't mean recirc line. You just ahve to turn the switch in behind the pump on the diverting valve. It says "IN" and "OUT" on it. Turn it, and that's all you have to do for re-circ line.
I really wish ppl would stop blaming these units, and start blaming poor installations.

Just my 2 cents

Well that pretty much leaves residential home owners out in the cold doesn't it. We do not install commercial appliances in single family dwellings.

Oh yeah, you are just as wrong as the other guy. In order to place the unit in external circulation mode you must open the 3 way valve AND SET THE DIP SWITCHES TO EXTERNAL CIRCULATION. I wonder how many people you have left thinking they have external circulation set up when they don't.

When all else fails gentlemen, read the install instructions and the owners manual, especially before you show up lecturing me.

My opinion of Navien has not changed.

P.S. Refer to page 28 of the Navien Owner's Operation Manual

ZL700 · 03-23-2010, 02:09 PM

Wow your panties are in a bunch

So you know DIP switch 4 up, 5 down is internal circ, 4 down and 5 up is external circ, the difference between the two is the delta t of on/off operation.

External circ DIP position raises circ off temp read at inlet thermistor of buffer tank so that unit doesn't cycle and ext circ line will lose temp faster than unit, whereas internal circ shuts off at near set point of unit. Also you need to be informed that circ doesn't run 24/7, it cycles and samples the water to read the circ line temps. This happens more frequently when set to external circ. And yes circ will work without remote connected.

"With respect to it being big and bulky, well, it is. The CR 240A weighs 86 pounds vs. Noritz NRC 111 which weighs 74 lbs and the CR 240 A is 1.4" narrower but is 3.8" taller and 6.5" deeper."

Show me a Noritz unit with a circ and buffer tank in it that is smaller and lighter, and you will have a valid argument!

Oh by the way, the CR 240A hasn't been available since December, its a NR240A

Asparta · 03-23-2010, 03:24 PM

The dip switch information about recirc comes from Navien tech himself. Installed them this way and water circulates as it should. The operator's manual is not as clear as it should be. Has anyone taken a Navien repair course?

I have not left anyone complaining about their system not working. I have ot had all the issues that all these other plumbers are having with the unit. You can install commercial unit in residential. If using the heating box for radiant heating you HAVE to use the commercial model according to NAvien. This comes from a Navien tech.

I don't tell anyone that they HAVE to get the comercial model, but problems such as board re-programming, dud remotes, blown 90 degree elbows and other leaks have only happened on the residential models. I let people know this. Why should someone spend that kind of money and have problems with them?

I got ripped apart by SmellsLike, and I don't think there was reason for it.
What I have stated is fact, much from NAvien tech, and personal experience. I have not had to go back and "service" a unit yet. My guess is that it's because I know how to install these units. Seems weird that many others ahve had issues. I must not know what I am talking about.

Just my 2 cents......homeslice!

Asparta · 03-23-2010, 03:25 PM

You only set the dip switch for external recirculation if you are not using the internal pump. That is what that switch designates. Internal pump, or external. Nothing to do with the circulation path whatsoever. That is what the 3 way valve is for.

Get your facts straight before you try cramming facts down people's throats...

SUCKA!

Tankless · 03-24-2010, 02:39 PM

I love how everybody is an expert. ...anf FYI, unit recycles the return line after only about 5 minutes. Real efficient. As I have said before, it's a better idea than it is a product. But if it's making you money.......

ZL700 · 03-24-2010, 05:14 PM

Tankless,

Answer to your earlier question, the right button scrolls through the menu/readouts in reverse of the left button. (makes it easier to view the main 3 functions without scrolling through the 8 others)

Also hold down both at once and you can scroll through the last 5 stored error codes if any, assuming the board didn't lose power for about 20 minutes.

Also, if you didn't know, if remote is installed, hold down top left two buttons and bottom right two buttons for about 3 seconds and you get into a expanded menu of the LED on CB which allows you to observe two readouts at once such as GPM on CB and outlet temp on remote. Scroll through the remote menu with the up/down arrows. It helps to have the chart, to know what you are looking at, such as cycles, BTU, water & gas valve position, and so on but 5,6,7 are the main menus.

Recycling of the circ function is based on standby loss at unit, yes install it outside in a cooler climate and it will cycle. Whats your other option, install a big 4 Jap tankless hang a electric water heater below it and let it cycle on electric, after spending $600 more on parts, now that's real efficient!

Thanks for recognizing I am somewhat of an expert, ha

Go ahead and call yourself Tankless, but it would help you immensely if you had a full understanding of your business.

03-19-2010, 11:26 AM	#11
ZL700 The ONLY Engineer Allowed Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: All of US-South/Winter - North/Summer Posts: 556 My Photos	No reason to install the remote, especially when it is outside. The DIP switches would control the internal/external circulation feature without the remote, along with temps, but only in 10 degree increments without remote. Show me a tankless without DIP switches please? You didn't expect a condensing unit with an extra heat exchanger both made with stainless not to be heavier? The remote is sandwiched inside Styrofoam, what did you do drop the unit on it or step on it? Last edited by ZL700; 03-19-2010 at 12:14 PM..

03-24-2010, 02:39 PM	#19
Tankless Always Something Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Santa Barbara / Ventura Posts: 1,347 My Photos	I love how everybody is an expert. ...anf FYI, unit recycles the return line after only about 5 minutes. Real efficient. As I have said before, it's a better idea than it is a product. But if it's making you money....... __________________ "It's now. You just go for it now and you worry about the future and the past later." -Steve Nash And when I leave come together like butt cheeks -Grits n Gravy

03-24-2010, 05:14 PM	#20
ZL700 The ONLY Engineer Allowed Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: All of US-South/Winter - North/Summer Posts: 556 My Photos	Tankless, Answer to your earlier question, the right button scrolls through the menu/readouts in reverse of the left button. (makes it easier to view the main 3 functions without scrolling through the 8 others) Also hold down both at once and you can scroll through the last 5 stored error codes if any, assuming the board didn't lose power for about 20 minutes. Also, if you didn't know, if remote is installed, hold down top left two buttons and bottom right two buttons for about 3 seconds and you get into a expanded menu of the LED on CB which allows you to observe two readouts at once such as GPM on CB and outlet temp on remote. Scroll through the remote menu with the up/down arrows. It helps to have the chart, to know what you are looking at, such as cycles, BTU, water & gas valve position, and so on but 5,6,7 are the main menus. Recycling of the circ function is based on standby loss at unit, yes install it outside in a cooler climate and it will cycle. Whats your other option, install a big 4 Jap tankless hang a electric water heater below it and let it cycle on electric, after spending $600 more on parts, now that's real efficient! Thanks for recognizing I am somewhat of an expert, ha Go ahead and call yourself Tankless, but it would help you immensely if you had a full understanding of your business. Last edited by ZL700; 03-24-2010 at 05:39 PM..

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03-20-2010, 01:20 AM	#12
Asparta Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Drayton Valley, Alberta, CANADA Posts: 38 My Photos	The Naivien is a great unit, but I would only buy commercial units. If they are setup correctly, and installed/plumbed correctly there will be no issues with the working's of the unit. I have put in 6 of these and no call backs. I am in Canada too, so the groundwater in winter is FREEZING ASS COLD! Still no issues. Don't sell a tankless unless the input is 199,000 BTU or higher. It's just the way they work. You don't size these as minimum requirments. You size for bigger than what you need. Dip switches get set and then y0ou never touch them again! Also, you don't set the dip switches for "external recirculation". That doesn't mean recirc line. You just ahve to turn the switch in behind the pump on the diverting valve. It says "IN" and "OUT" on it. Turn it, and that's all you have to do for re-circ line. I really wish ppl would stop blaming these units, and start blaming poor installations. Just my 2 cents

03-20-2010, 01:33 AM	#13
Asparta Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Drayton Valley, Alberta, CANADA Posts: 38 My Photos	Also, when setting up any tankless, for one thing, avoid using them if you are on a well, also, when filling the unit/system, get all air out from available bleed tubes, and turn on all hot faucets and let unit run 10 minutes. This allows the unit to "learn" the maximum flow it needs to make up. Also, you are not allowed hotter water than 170 degrees in a drainage system, and by code not hotter than 120 degrees to a shower. So 120 degrees setting on the unit is plenty.

03-23-2010, 02:09 PM	#16
ZL700 The ONLY Engineer Allowed Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: All of US-South/Winter - North/Summer Posts: 556 My Photos	Wow your panties are in a bunch So you know DIP switch 4 up, 5 down is internal circ, 4 down and 5 up is external circ, the difference between the two is the delta t of on/off operation. External circ DIP position raises circ off temp read at inlet thermistor of buffer tank so that unit doesn't cycle and ext circ line will lose temp faster than unit, whereas internal circ shuts off at near set point of unit. Also you need to be informed that circ doesn't run 24/7, it cycles and samples the water to read the circ line temps. This happens more frequently when set to external circ. And yes circ will work without remote connected. "With respect to it being big and bulky, well, it is. The CR 240A weighs 86 pounds vs. Noritz NRC 111 which weighs 74 lbs and the CR 240 A is 1.4" narrower but is 3.8" taller and 6.5" deeper." Show me a Noritz unit with a circ and buffer tank in it that is smaller and lighter, and you will have a valid argument! Oh by the way, the CR 240A hasn't been available since December, its a NR240A

03-23-2010, 03:24 PM	#17
Asparta Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Drayton Valley, Alberta, CANADA Posts: 38 My Photos	The dip switch information about recirc comes from Navien tech himself. Installed them this way and water circulates as it should. The operator's manual is not as clear as it should be. Has anyone taken a Navien repair course? I have not left anyone complaining about their system not working. I have ot had all the issues that all these other plumbers are having with the unit. You can install commercial unit in residential. If using the heating box for radiant heating you HAVE to use the commercial model according to NAvien. This comes from a Navien tech. I don't tell anyone that they HAVE to get the comercial model, but problems such as board re-programming, dud remotes, blown 90 degree elbows and other leaks have only happened on the residential models. I let people know this. Why should someone spend that kind of money and have problems with them? I got ripped apart by SmellsLike, and I don't think there was reason for it. What I have stated is fact, much from NAvien tech, and personal experience. I have not had to go back and "service" a unit yet. My guess is that it's because I know how to install these units. Seems weird that many others ahve had issues. I must not know what I am talking about. Just my 2 cents......homeslice!

03-23-2010, 03:25 PM	#18
Asparta Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Drayton Valley, Alberta, CANADA Posts: 38 My Photos	You only set the dip switch for external recirculation if you are not using the internal pump. That is what that switch designates. Internal pump, or external. Nothing to do with the circulation path whatsoever. That is what the 3 way valve is for. Get your facts straight before you try cramming facts down people's throats... SUCKA!