6th Density

So I'm bidding on a doctors office and the owner just so happens to be my brother.

He has a well reputable GC that is known for his craftsmanship.

The GC has his typical crew of subs.

The GC knows me and knows that it makes sense to open the job up for others subs to competitively bid against each other. So he asks for our MEP company and others to bid the MEP as well. We are a big company that generally can't compete against the small timers but we still try to bid on as many things as we can get to. This one being family.

The project still hasn't been completely engineered (no thanks to the architect, when I say engineered I mean by the subs, GC, owner). I came up with a good design that my brother likes and threw a plumbing price for it. My brother still doesn't have all spec's on his surgery rooms so we can't accurately give him a med gas price yet. So we gave him a budget price for the med gas (based off previous similar jobs) on top of my plumbing proposal.

The GC's plumber beat me by 10,000 dollars and I know he didn't include what I included in my proposal/ plumbing design for the building (which is why I wrote an intensely detailed proposal so as to protect my brother when the time comes to hold the other plumber to the flames come time to write the contract out.


Point being though, is that the GC's plumber had a falling out with his son (who also holds a PC license). The son split apart from his father and started his own business and took some of the best guys with him, INCLUDING THE MAN THAT HOLDS THE ASSE 6010 med gas installer license.

So here I am knowing that the GC's plumber is not certified to install the medgas. This job is to start in about 2 months.

Should I:
a) Do nothing at all and assume the plumber can get certified in that time frame so as to help my brother save 10,000 dollars?
or
b) tell the boss of my company who will probably make a huge stink of it all and call the inspector on it?
or
c) get my brother to have them install the plumbing and ask them where's there license to install the medgas after the plumbing is in?


Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

revenge

Well that's a hard one. The co. Is not yours right so ucant really give him a better deal can u. As for the no med liscense that work hasn't started yet so u really can't say they not gonna have someone certified by then right. So u really can't say nothing now, u have to wait till the med gas starts rolling to ask. And do not ask after work is complete but when work is starting. We had a co accidently cross med gas lines they didn't find out till after two month of the clinic being open.every body got sued even the clinic. So wait till the work is starting then ask

6th Density

Thanks, I didn't even think about that possibly happening. Lawyers going after the owner too? That's crazy but sounds like something a lawyer would do.

I will keep that in mind when the time comes.

drtyhands

Your brother is most likely a pretty savy guy.Let him know the variables.
Even if you don't get the job I'd imagine your still gonna walk it,if not for just plain curiosity.

6th Density

What do you guys think about getting my brother to ask for a P and P bond or a Bid bond?
Wouldn't there be any advantage with demanding such (I'm asking because bonds are not my specialty)?

I know our medgas prices are just budgets (and the GC's plumber probably did a fixture count estimate for the plumbing) and that it would be best for my brother to get that priced out again once he has all the equipment specd out by the dental supply company he's using. But either way I will never be able to drop my price down 10,000 dollars.

And if you are wondering, my brother needs a price now so he can get the damn bank to release the loan for the buying the building and the construction cost to remodel it.

Mississippiplum

I think the med gas license should brought to the attention of the gc and your brother, because that's a serious issue that can put lives at risk.

__________________
''i would rather die on my knees with freedom then on my feet with no freedom"

Widdershins

AFAIK, you can't have one without the other.

Considering the scope of the project and degree of liability should something go wrong, a Bid Bond and Payment and Performance Bond makes good sense.

I'd advise your brother to hire a lawyer to go over each and every subs contract to ensure that liability for payment falls to the GC and not to him.

A smart Sub knows how to skirt the intent of a P&P Bond, I should know, I've done it myself plenty of times.

drtyhands

That right there is a red flag.
Hurry?
Most know that anytime something is kicked off in a rush things continue in a downhill progression and is much harder to get turned, if at all.

Plumbing has it's problem line items.
Demo,steel stud and drywall is monkey work and gets money into the GC's pocket so framing is up in two days getting the owners all uppity thinking they're going to be in fast.Then mechanicals bring everyone back to earth.

How do the other HVAC contractor's numbers compare to this GC.
Electrician's number's got to be pretty important I would think?

ChrisConnor

I am just surprised you're not asked to do it for free.

6th Density

He's an oral surgeon, he can afford it!!