AKdaplumba

I thought of one job site later on,a duplex(all duplexes), to the second unit there was a 4x3 wye, 4x3 c/o5 ft away off the end of the wye. the 3" branch off the wye picked up a P.R., bar sink and the basement bathroom. So technically the P.R. should be the 4x3 c/o since its farther.

In either case run it to the farthest so you pass the first time everytime.

Lots of grey area's

Miguel

Not so much a grey area if there's only one building drain. 4" to the main stack (3" min no more than 45° offset and terminating at the roof) and a 4" CO at the base of that stack.

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markb

Cut out the old plumbing and re-ran some of the pipes today.

I suppose I agree with the inspector to a certain extent. That way the underground is always able to be fully cleaned. Trying to snake 4" underground is alot easier than trying to properly clean 2" underground.

Anyways, thanks everyone. I know it wasn't too clear of a post (it was a bit late), but thanks for your thoughts.

...still no code references though. Interesting. Maybe it's just one of those things everyone does and is inspector in forced, but not written in the code.

BTW, any Ontario plumbers here members of the OPIA? (Ontario Plumbing Inspectors Association)? I thought about becoming a member just for access to their forum. Hopefully to be able to ask inspectors questions regarding things like this. Anyone have any comments about the association and what they have to offer?

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Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
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OldSchool

That inspector has to rethink about over sizing pipe. It is not good to over size pipe such as running a kitchen drain using a 4" on the horizontal. Over sizing a pipe for a particular fixture will eventually clog the pipe. I have come a cross numerous 4" pipe in commercial that had been altered (renovated handled washrooms before) to only handle one sink. The pipes was completly blocked over its entire run.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by U666A My bad mood will fade, your ignorance will last a lifetime...

Miguel

That's a really good point which led me to assume that it was a building drain issue.
Code references would be:
7.4.9.4
7.4.7.2
7.4.7.1

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jeffreyplumber

All you need to do is branch off before the end of the 4 inch with a 4x2 y then you will only need a 2 inch clean out. Im assuming you have a 4 inch cleanout in the middle of your house (End of Line). You might not need a c/o at all on the 2 inch since its serving the up stair as long as its less than 5 ft to main (horizontaly). Thats UPC code

markb

Interesting posts...

So here is my conclusion, and the inspector will hear about it next job

Nowhere in the Ontario building code does it state that all sanitary or waste stacks are required to be 4" at the base of the stack.

The Ontario Building Code 2006 does state that:

- A building drain must be 4" * Note 1 *

- A building drain begins at the building sewer and ends at our main soil stack (3" min to open air, most upstream soil stack from building sewer) * Note 2 *

- OBC states that every soil or waste stack be provided with a cleanout fitting *Note 3*

- Although it was previously thought of as safer while designing a plumbing system, NOT all underground should be 4". In fact, it is for the benefit of the system to size drains relative to the discharge it will receive using the tables included in OBC Part 7. *Note 4*

- A clean-out is required to be the same size as the discharge pipe, installed every 6 M on drainage piping smaller than 4" and carrying the discharge from a kitchen sink *Note 5*

Therefore, as long as the stack has the required clean-outs and sized according to table 7.4.10.6.A (Maximum permitted hydraulic loads drained into a soil or waste stack, Forming part of sentence 7.4.10.6(1)) it has met the requirements of the Ontario Building Code and can be installed legally.


References
Note 1: 7.4.9.4 (1) Every sanitary building drain and every sanitary building sewer shall be at least 4" in size

Note 2: (OBC Part 1 (definitions), sanitary building drain) Sanitary Building Drain: means a building drain that conducts sewage to a building sewer from the most upstream soil or waste stack, branch or fixture drain serving a water closet.
As long as a stack is not serving water closets, there is no way that they can even be considered part of the sanitary building drain. Thus, they are NOT required to be 4" underground.

Note 3: 7.4.7.1 (7) Every soil or waste stack shall be provided with a clean-out fitting
a) At the bottom of the stack
b) Not more than 1000mm upstream of the bottom of the stack, or
c) on a Y fitting connecting the stack to the building drain or branch
Note 4: “Years ago it was common practice to install drainage piping larger than necessary on the assumption that this would increase the efficiency of the drain. It was later realized that an oversized drain tends to be less efficient because the flow of water is too shallow to properly transport solids and also because it fails to provide the scouring action so important in keeping a drain clear.” Ontario Plumbing apprenticeship basic level manual, October 2006, page 277

Note 5: 7.4.7.2 (1) (a) ...The minimum size clean-out opening shall be the same size as the drainage pipe...in the case of a sink waste pipe [cleanouts shall be spaced no further than] 6M apart
Mark Bajcar

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Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
- Winston Churchill

Miguel

Aye! I think you've got it!

Prolly no need to make sure "the inspector hears of it" unless you intend to be tactful and calm, submissive. (Like the Dog Whisperer says. You might be more right than them but no point in showing it. They wield a big axe!)

Hope the job works out well!

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jeffreyplumber

Our plumbing system is a lot differant than yours, we often times dont have a main stack, the new houses are all cut up there might be 3 bathrooms in different parts of the house with only a 2 inch vent serving each one, No main 3 or 4 inch stack, only old houses with all the plumbing grouped close by have a stack over 2 inch.
So out of your code what is the conclusion , Inspector was right or wrong?

markb

Conclusion, the inspector was trying to be a know-it-all and add his own requirements to the building code.

__________________
--
Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
- Winston Churchill