How "Easy" Do you want the Profession of Plumbing to Become? - Plumbing Zone

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 02-12-2009, 01:31 AM

There's a loaded question that has a million meanings, and given the thread starter's point of view, I'm sure it doesn't need much explanation.

Should we all think we're plumbers since we can push-fit, crimp, glue-connect everything that we don't need a license anymore?

Remember, someone has designed plumbing where DIY'rs can easily do our job now, and how can you complain when they do it at this point? It literally is at the point now where we might just be in the same category as drywallers, painters. Not many tools needed.

SPH · 02-12-2009, 01:56 AM

i think you just like starting fights...

Being a 'professional' depends 100% on yourself, and how you present yourself and perform your trade.

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 02-12-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPH

i think you just like starting fights...

Being a 'professional' depends 100% on yourself, and how you present yourself and perform your trade.

Now now, let's not be hastey.

Please tell me why tomorrow when I install a RO system that all I need is a screwdriver, drill bit, and a crescent wrench.

That system underneath that sink will be sloppy looking just like every one of them is made to be.

I can be a professional paper thrower for the local newspaper, but I'm performing my trade just like the next guy.

Truth is, everything I've stated is true, it's not fiction.

Years ago homeowners didn't set up threading tools and cut galvanized water lines for themselves, fix their water lines.

Now, they sharkbite and run with their legal garden hose.

I like plumbing when it's hard, like my arteries to my heart. I like it when less people can do my job.

Tankless · 02-12-2009, 02:58 AM

Damn, I was hoping this was about how to line up and drill perfect holes in masonry or an easier way to do superman work. ya know, in an attic up against the roof pitch stuffed inbetween the damn roofers nails and dirty fiberglass insulation sweating that 90 on above the plate. For what it's worth, I charge an obsurd amount of money to do that. i didn't when I first got on my own, but now...I know how to do it...time to cash in on it.

Get this....I bid a tankless and as I show up I see another guy leaving. i know the guy and he buys shark bites by the case...no ***** I seen him carrying them out.

So I go look at the place...give my 02 and type up a bid. This is the funny part. under the scope of work section i make a little side note giving very brief detail of push on connectors and how box stores sell them and they are legal in CA for in wall use. Long story short i told the client that the guy b4 me won't solder anymore and only uses SB...which is 100% truth. Sent it off that night, checked email in the morning...and I got it. But I did include in a term "I will in under no circumstances use any kind of push on connecting device...blah blah..."

It was a first for me to mention anything like this in a bid...I have a feeling I may stick with it.

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 02-12-2009, 03:13 AM

That's a good logic to follow as well.

Everything I'm doing on this RO system is indeed a lowered pressure, like 40 pounds but I can't stand that everything is so eaaaaaazy peeaaaaazy japaneeezy under the sink.

Red tube goes here
Blue tube goes there
Yellow tube goes there
Black tube has to go there

Turn the water on, I gotta run!

Does everyone know why the only reason RO systems are not installed by the homeowner most times? They don't know or want to drill that crucial first step, the hole in the sink for the faucet.

Mine tomorrow is on a high end corian top. I figure I'm going to have to buy one of those carbide round hole saw bits to get through corian. I got a step drill bit but it'll dull it completely.

If that hole already existed? Homeowner would be putting this in, not me. That's why the system is already there.

Look at the new stainless steel flex supply line....my grandma could replace her toilet supply with the ease of that installation practice. At least with the chrome risers, you had to know which end to connect first. ????

trick1 · 02-12-2009, 05:39 AM

While it is true that all of these newer materials are easy to install, we all know that the correct sizing calculations for gpm, velocity, and pressure (in the case of pex) is not something a homeowner cares about.

It's also said that PVC is just gluing pipes together. That's all well and good, but what about DFU loads, venting principles and correct termination and too many other things to mention.

My long drawn out point is that we as professionals have to design,engineer, install and maintain these systems, regardless of materials. All while making it into a work of art.

Find a drywaller that says that!!!

nhmaster3015 · 02-12-2009, 07:14 AM

ou all know my feelings here. However, no matter how easy the actual installation gets the underlying principals still apply.

22rifle · 02-12-2009, 09:39 AM

I see protectionism as grossly immoral and anti-freedom. It IS anti-freedom. That cannot be honestly denied. Whether you think anti-freedom is immoral or not is up to you but I know where I stand on it.

Other than that, carry on.

Wethead · 02-12-2009, 05:52 PM

Its going to become a NON license thing in the future, well there will be a "corporation" that holds the license and then 20k+ workers....

If you think I am bsing you, take a look around at HOW MANY small shops are being bought up by mr rooters and franchises,

Unless all you OLD MEN PLUMBERS start being NICE to the young , its all over....

Don't believe me?

Bookmark this thread and bump it in 5 years,

I know many people think I am just some stupid dude, But I am obsessed with this industry and have TONS of data on it,

The PROBLEM:

no seniors are trying to recruit and train young guys and that's FORCING big companies to make things like read and blue pex......DUH......

You better start training and LICENSING your guys ALL of them before Mr rooter and the boys take over.

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 02-12-2009, 06:00 PM

We already got what you're saying. This big jobs down in Lexington and Louisville?

They hire a bunch of illegals to come in and "Plumb" yes plumb these buildings with pex piping like they are running wire, they get it done in super speed along with that flexible gas piping that's in the same category. SPEED

40 years ago the average joe did not go out and work on their plumbing, not to the extent they do today. That's a fact because they didn't have what exists in rubber couplings, push together piping systems.

Look at my license in Ohio; totally useless, has no value at this point because everyone sits under one license, contractor's license. You're grouped into all the trades and nobody is special. I like being special.

02-12-2009, 01:31 AM	#1
DUNBAR PLUMBING www.DunbarPlumbing.com Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NORTHERN KENTUCKY - GREATER CINCINNATI AREA Posts: 4,495 My Photos	How "Easy" Do you want the Profession of Plumbing to Become? There's a loaded question that has a million meanings, and given the thread starter's point of view, I'm sure it doesn't need much explanation. Should we all think we're plumbers since we can push-fit, crimp, glue-connect everything that we don't need a license anymore? Remember, someone has designed plumbing where DIY'rs can easily do our job now, and how can you complain when they do it at this point? It literally is at the point now where we might just be in the same category as drywallers, painters. Not many tools needed. __________________ Northern Kentucky Plumbers *\|YOUTUBE VIDEOS\| Twitter Feed \| DUNBAR PLUMBING FAN PAGE*

02-12-2009, 03:13 AM	#5
DUNBAR PLUMBING www.DunbarPlumbing.com Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NORTHERN KENTUCKY - GREATER CINCINNATI AREA Posts: 4,495 My Photos	That's a good logic to follow as well. Everything I'm doing on this RO system is indeed a lowered pressure, like 40 pounds but I can't stand that everything is so eaaaaaazy peeaaaaazy japaneeezy under the sink. Red tube goes here Blue tube goes there Yellow tube goes there Black tube has to go there Turn the water on, I gotta run! Does everyone know why the only reason RO systems are not installed by the homeowner most times? They don't know or want to drill that crucial first step, the hole in the sink for the faucet. Mine tomorrow is on a high end corian top. I figure I'm going to have to buy one of those carbide round hole saw bits to get through corian. I got a step drill bit but it'll dull it completely. If that hole already existed? Homeowner would be putting this in, not me. That's why the system is already there. Look at the new stainless steel flex supply line....my grandma could replace her toilet supply with the ease of that installation practice. At least with the chrome risers, you had to know which end to connect first. ???? __________________ Northern Kentucky Plumbers *\|YOUTUBE VIDEOS\| Twitter Feed \| DUNBAR PLUMBING FAN PAGE*

02-12-2009, 07:14 AM	#7
nhmaster3015 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: S. Maine Posts: 2,057 My Photos	ou all know my feelings here. However, no matter how easy the actual installation gets the underlying principals still apply. __________________ So little time, so many asses to kick Protect your trade, think before you buy

02-12-2009, 06:00 PM	#10
DUNBAR PLUMBING www.DunbarPlumbing.com Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NORTHERN KENTUCKY - GREATER CINCINNATI AREA Posts: 4,495 My Photos	We already got what you're saying. This big jobs down in Lexington and Louisville? They hire a bunch of illegals to come in and "Plumb" yes plumb these buildings with pex piping like they are running wire, they get it done in super speed along with that flexible gas piping that's in the same category. SPEED 40 years ago the average joe did not go out and work on their plumbing, not to the extent they do today. That's a fact because they didn't have what exists in rubber couplings, push together piping systems. Look at my license in Ohio; totally useless, has no value at this point because everyone sits under one license, contractor's license. You're grouped into all the trades and nobody is special. I like being special. __________________ Northern Kentucky Plumbers *\|YOUTUBE VIDEOS\| Twitter Feed \| DUNBAR PLUMBING FAN PAGE*

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-12-2009, 01:56 AM	#2
SPH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 319 My Photos	i think you just like starting fights... Being a 'professional' depends 100% on yourself, and how you present yourself and perform your trade.

02-12-2009, 02:58 AM	#4
Tankless Always Something Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Santa Barbara / Ventura Posts: 1,347 My Photos	Damn, I was hoping this was about how to line up and drill perfect holes in masonry or an easier way to do superman work. ya know, in an attic up against the roof pitch stuffed inbetween the damn roofers nails and dirty fiberglass insulation sweating that 90 on above the plate. For what it's worth, I charge an obsurd amount of money to do that. i didn't when I first got on my own, but now...I know how to do it...time to cash in on it. Get this....I bid a tankless and as I show up I see another guy leaving. i know the guy and he buys shark bites by the case...no ***** I seen him carrying them out. So I go look at the place...give my 02 and type up a bid. This is the funny part. under the scope of work section i make a little side note giving very brief detail of push on connectors and how box stores sell them and they are legal in CA for in wall use. Long story short i told the client that the guy b4 me won't solder anymore and only uses SB...which is 100% truth. Sent it off that night, checked email in the morning...and I got it. But I did include in a term "I will in under no circumstances use any kind of push on connecting device...blah blah..." It was a first for me to mention anything like this in a bid...I have a feeling I may stick with it.

02-12-2009, 05:39 AM	#6
trick1 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newington, CT. Posts: 247 My Photos	While it is true that all of these newer materials are easy to install, we all know that the correct sizing calculations for gpm, velocity, and pressure (in the case of pex) is not something a homeowner cares about. It's also said that PVC is just gluing pipes together. That's all well and good, but what about DFU loads, venting principles and correct termination and too many other things to mention. My long drawn out point is that we as professionals have to design,engineer, install and maintain these systems, regardless of materials. All while making it into a work of art. Find a drywaller that says that!!!

02-12-2009, 09:39 AM	#8
22rifle Master Plumber Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,053 My Photos	I see protectionism as grossly immoral and anti-freedom. It IS anti-freedom. That cannot be honestly denied. Whether you think anti-freedom is immoral or not is up to you but I know where I stand on it. Other than that, carry on.

02-12-2009, 05:52 PM	#9
Wethead Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 1,644 My Photos	Its going to become a NON license thing in the future, well there will be a "corporation" that holds the license and then 20k+ workers.... If you think I am bsing you, take a look around at HOW MANY small shops are being bought up by mr rooters and franchises, Unless all you OLD MEN PLUMBERS start being NICE to the young , its all over.... Don't believe me? Bookmark this thread and bump it in 5 years, I know many people think I am just some stupid dude, But I am obsessed with this industry and have TONS of data on it, The PROBLEM: no seniors are trying to recruit and train young guys and that's FORCING big companies to make things like read and blue pex......DUH...... You better start training and LICENSING your guys ALL of them before Mr rooter and the boys take over.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Selling Approach for "Bio-" Products	Titan	Drain and Sewer Cleaning	7	04-05-2009 12:40 AM
"Kitec" is history and Rehau PEX )Plumbing is almost history too.	22rifle	Plumbing Material and Products	13	11-15-2008 07:49 PM
"Firing" difficult customers.	service guy	Business, Marketing, and Sales	37	10-31-2008 02:48 PM
"Seams Easy"	Scott K	Plumbing Material and Products	8	10-16-2008 11:26 PM
"Functioning of a drum, float, or water column"	I'mYourTourGuide	Plumbing Code	0	08-26-2008 09:31 PM