"When Work Relationships Go Bad" (A MUST READ) - Page 3 - Plumbing Zone

M5Plumb · 11-05-2009, 03:38 PM

A fellow plumber friend once told me, "I'll help you all day long to install a new surround sound, I'll help you put in a new fence, but plumbing, I'll charge you like everyone else"
He said this so as to not get any lines crossed...Apparently it is working and his friends know where they stand.

Great read Dunbar, it is unfortunate the turn the relationship took but it is better off to no longer have to deal in it. IMHO...

Phat Cat · 11-05-2009, 06:58 PM

I think friends equate your hourly rate with their hourly rate of pay. If a job is being done during regular business hours, the bill should be for what your usual and customary charges are. Offering a small discount like 10% is very generous.

If the work is being done as a 'side job,' than the rate should be closer to what your true hourly rate is.

I.E. - Your company charges $100./hr. for plumbing work and you are paid $20./hr. Sidework for friends should be close to your personal hourly rate.

Why should you charge friends / family more than what you charge your boss?

Master Mark · 11-05-2009, 10:10 PM

I know your pain too....

had a customer that I did a house for back in the early 90s, and our wives became close freinds...

we did a lot of boating together over the years and eventually they became the godparents to our first born son..

then he wanted to start bartering out plumbing for sign work...

once he got teh hook set good , and got into the hole to me for about 800 bucks , that is when the freindship turned sour..

stood me up on a job they promised to do to
"get the barter deal back to even"

he could have plowed out compnaies driveway over the last 7 years and we would have been even a long time ago...

its ok when you owe them but....
.when they got to keep their word,
then you find out their true colors...

..so I scraped him off like I had stepped in a pile of dog **** and moved on.....

never pursued the money .
...but everyone we both knew together have been warned......

bartnc37 · 11-06-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlumbCrazy

I think friends equate your hourly rate with their hourly rate of pay. If a job is being done during regular business hours, the bill should be for what your usual and customary charges are. Offering a small discount like 10% is very generous.

If the work is being done as a 'side job,' than the rate should be closer to what your true hourly rate is.

I.E. - Your company charges $100./hr. for plumbing work and you are paid $20./hr. Sidework for friends should be close to your personal hourly rate.

Why should you charge friends / family more than what you charge your boss?

personally if your company charges $100 you should be charging 50-75, unless that is you enjoy having your nights and weekends chewed up by all of the people that will suddenly become your best friend when they find out you'll do plumbing work for them for $20 an hour. Personally i only do side work if i share genetic material with them and then only if they haven't pissed me off recently.

service guy · 11-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Sidejobbing = no insurance = stupid.

422 plumber · 11-06-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlumbCrazy

I think friends equate your hourly rate with their hourly rate of pay. If a job is being done during regular business hours, the bill should be for what your usual and customary charges are. Offering a small discount like 10% is very generous.

If the work is being done as a 'side job,' than the rate should be closer to what your true hourly rate is.

I.E. - Your company charges $100./hr. for plumbing work and you are paid $20./hr. Sidework for friends should be close to your personal hourly rate.

Why should you charge friends / family more than what you charge your boss?

Are you a business owner? You are sharpening the blade that's cutting your throat, and for cheap, too.

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 11-07-2009, 01:10 AM

I had to read my own thread again to figure out what customer I was speaking of.

I actually have written this guy off a long time ago and chaulked it up to someone I wasted my time on. He's a homeowner so his plumbing problems just don't end.

I believe it was a great move for my business to pull away from AL completely last year because those types seem to be the most destructive for the big business plan.

Just this week I had a guy wanting me to hook up a faucet without replacing the supply lines. If you can't afford $12, go sell your house.

Herk · 11-07-2009, 01:57 AM

Reading back through this thread, I've had some thoughts.

When you feel as though maybe you are friends with someone and maybe you shouldn't charge full price, have you ever thought that's the way they WANT you to feel? People are often good at manipulating others, and you don't even realize it.

It's very difficult for a plumber to have any real friends. A lot of people make friends because they want something from them. And when you stop letting them use you, you often find that they are suddenly no longer friends. And it seems that you will sooner or later be doing plumbing for your friends.

"You've got to find what you love and let it kill you." - Kinky Friedman

Colgar · 11-07-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herk

Reading back through this thread, I've had some thoughts.

When you feel as though maybe you are friends with someone and maybe you shouldn't charge full price, have you ever thought that's the way they WANT you to feel? People are often good at manipulating others, and you don't even realize it.

It's very difficult for a plumber to have any real friends. A lot of people make friends because they want something from them. And when you stop letting them use you, you often find that they are suddenly no longer friends. And it seems that you will sooner or later be doing plumbing for your friends.

"You've got to find what you love and let it kill you." - Kinky Friedman

True. However, if a friend expects work for nothing, they are not a friend. A good friend says, "I want this done and you better bill be accordingly, or I don't want you to do it."

service guy · 11-07-2009, 09:23 AM

The only person I do free plumbing for is my mom.

I once did a toilet rebuild for an old neighbor for free and let him decide what to pay me, what he gave me was insulting. I think it was $10 for an hour of work or something like that. He obviously has no clue what my overhead expenses are each day, but I did learn a valuable lesson from teh experience:
Ever since then...EVERYONE PAYS FULL PRICE!

11-05-2009, 03:38 PM	#21
M5Plumb Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SW Washington, PDX OR Posts: 534 My Photos	A fellow plumber friend once told me, "I'll help you all day long to install a new surround sound, I'll help you put in a new fence, but plumbing, I'll charge you like everyone else" He said this so as to not get any lines crossed...Apparently it is working and his friends know where they stand. Great read Dunbar, it is unfortunate the turn the relationship took but it is better off to no longer have to deal in it. IMHO... __________________ M5 Plumbing Services llc Serving the Portland Vancouver area 360 624 8376 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

11-05-2009, 06:58 PM	#22
Phat Cat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,106 My Photos	I think friends equate your hourly rate with their hourly rate of pay. If a job is being done during regular business hours, the bill should be for what your usual and customary charges are. Offering a small discount like 10% is very generous. If the work is being done as a 'side job,' than the rate should be closer to what your true hourly rate is. I.E. - Your company charges $100./hr. for plumbing work and you are paid $20./hr. Sidework for friends should be close to your personal hourly rate. Why should you charge friends / family more than what you charge your boss? __________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. – Edmund Burke

11-05-2009, 10:10 PM	#23
Master Mark philosopher and statesmen Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Indianapolis indiana ... Posts: 2,371 My Photos	Bartering With Freinds I know your pain too.... had a customer that I did a house for back in the early 90s, and our wives became close freinds... we did a lot of boating together over the years and eventually they became the godparents to our first born son.. then he wanted to start bartering out plumbing for sign work... once he got teh hook set good , and got into the hole to me for about 800 bucks , that is when the freindship turned sour.. stood me up on a job they promised to do to "get the barter deal back to even" he could have plowed out compnaies driveway over the last 7 years and we would have been even a long time ago... its ok when you owe them but.... .when they got to keep their word, then you find out their true colors... ..so I scraped him off like I had stepped in a pile of dog ** and moved on..... never pursued the money . ...but everyone we both knew together have been warned...... __________________ God created man, Sam Colt made them equal**." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQMO1eyMRuM

11-06-2009, 08:05 PM	#25
service guy waterheaterzone.com Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Universe Posts: 2,043 My Photos	Sidejobbing = no insurance = stupid. __________________ Water Heater Reviews and Water Heater Information

11-07-2009, 01:10 AM	#27
DUNBAR PLUMBING www.DunbarPlumbing.com Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NORTHERN KENTUCKY - GREATER CINCINNATI AREA Posts: 4,495 My Photos	I had to read my own thread again to figure out what customer I was speaking of. I actually have written this guy off a long time ago and chaulked it up to someone I wasted my time on. He's a homeowner so his plumbing problems just don't end. I believe it was a great move for my business to pull away from AL completely last year because those types seem to be the most destructive for the big business plan. Just this week I had a guy wanting me to hook up a faucet without replacing the supply lines. If you can't afford $12, go sell your house. __________________ Northern Kentucky Plumbers *\|YOUTUBE VIDEOS\| Twitter Feed \| DUNBAR PLUMBING FAN PAGE*

11-07-2009, 01:57 AM	#28
Herk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: S.E. Idaho Posts: 800 My Photos	Reading back through this thread, I've had some thoughts. When you feel as though maybe you are friends with someone and maybe you shouldn't charge full price, have you ever thought that's the way they WANT you to feel? People are often good at manipulating others, and you don't even realize it. It's very difficult for a plumber to have any real friends. A lot of people make friends because they want something from them. And when you stop letting them use you, you often find that they are suddenly no longer friends. And it seems that you will sooner or later be doing plumbing for your friends. "You've got to find what you love and let it kill you." - Kinky Friedman

11-07-2009, 09:23 AM	#30
service guy waterheaterzone.com Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Universe Posts: 2,043 My Photos	The only person I do free plumbing for is my mom. I once did a toilet rebuild for an old neighbor for free and let him decide what to pay me, what he gave me was insulting. I think it was $10 for an hour of work or something like that. He obviously has no clue what my overhead expenses are each day, but I did learn a valuable lesson from teh experience: Ever since then...EVERYONE PAYS FULL PRICE! __________________ Water Heater Reviews and Water Heater Information

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