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Old 09-26-2010, 11:22 PM   #1
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Default Kohler 1pc with no trap fill tube

A friend (and customer) of mine has three fancy Kohler one piece toilets in his house. It's been too long for me to remember the model name or numbers. They have Fluidmaster 400A valves in them, but they have no trap fill tubes. The outlet port is still there, but it's solid plastic - no hole, and no tube.

He needs new valves throughout. The old ones are wearing out. But when I went there when the first one failed with a Pro45B I didn't know exactly what to do about the trap fill tube problem. I used it, but he hates the noise it makes. The toilet doesn't need one. Anyone ever successfully kink off or plug those hoses? Or should I order the genuine article and wait for months to get them? This is Canada, and parts often aren't very well stocked here (it's pathetic sometimes).
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:26 PM   #2
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If he doesn't like the noise, You can order him an OEM fill valve from kohler and he can just pay more for the over priced valve.

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Old 09-27-2010, 12:10 AM   #3
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I usually just clip it to the overflow so it sprays into the tank and not the overflow. If they object to the noise screw a stainless steel or brass screw into the stub on the fill valve...
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:19 AM   #4
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I usually just clip it to the overflow so it sprays into the tank and not the overflow. If they object to the noise screw a stainless steel or brass screw into the stub on the fill valve...
That sounds like a plan. I have one possible source for Kohler parts. If they don't have them and I have to order and wait I'll just try one of those two solutions, or maybe I'll suddenly get creative when I'm there looking at it again and think of something better.

If you aim that water just right it doesn't make much noise. Obviously I didn't aim it good enough before. Maybe I can improve the aim. We shall see.

Hmmm... Extra long tube zip-tied to the outside of the overflow tube so it's always underwater? Slightly risky, but use extra zip-ties for redundancy. How do they age in water?
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:54 AM   #5
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That sounds like a plan. I have one possible source for Kohler parts. If they don't have them and I have to order and wait I'll just try one of those two solutions, or maybe I'll suddenly get creative when I'm there looking at it again and think of something better.

If you aim that water just right it doesn't make much noise. Obviously I didn't aim it good enough before. Maybe I can improve the aim. We shall see.

Hmmm... Extra long tube zip-tied to the outside of the overflow tube so it's always underwater? Slightly risky, but use extra zip-ties for redundancy. How do they age in water?
If you put the tube of a 400a in the water it will siphon.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:09 AM   #6
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I used a dab of 2 part epoxy in the 400A. Worked great.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futz View Post
A friend (and customer) of mine has three fancy Kohler one piece toilets in his house. It's been too long for me to remember the model name or numbers. They have Fluidmaster 400A valves in them, but they have no trap fill tubes. The outlet port is still there, but it's solid plastic - no hole, and no tube.

He needs new valves throughout. The old ones are wearing out. But when I went there when the first one failed with a Pro45B I didn't know exactly what to do about the trap fill tube problem. I used it, but he hates the noise it makes. The toilet doesn't need one. Anyone ever successfully kink off or plug those hoses? Or should I order the genuine article and wait for months to get them? This is Canada, and parts often aren't very well stocked here (it's pathetic sometimes).
I think the toilet was a Rialto Flush valve was on the right. Ballcock on left no refill tube, but the valve did have an adjustable thumb screw. On a valve failure water could come into the tank faster than the overflow left it out. This ***** caused a lot of damage as the water would ru on the floor through the holes in the back of the tank. The repair now being sold is a new ballcock and included is a high capacity flush valve [opening about 1.25 x 2 inches.
A real PITA to install and adjust properly.

http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler...=0&PageSize=12

Looks like valve is not a F/M but a Coast Master
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLUMBER_BILL View Post
I think the toilet was a Rialto Flush valve was on the right. Ballcock on left no refill tube, but the valve did have an adjustable thumb screw. On a valve failure water could come into the tank faster than the overflow left it out. This ***** caused a lot of damage as the water would ru on the floor through the holes in the back of the tank. The repair now being sold is a new ballcock and included is a high capacity flush valve [opening about 1.25 x 2 inches.
A real PITA to install and adjust properly.
Definitely not Rialto. I installed a lot of those long ago. Possibly San Raphael. No thumb screw on the fill valve. It's plain old 400A, but with plugged trap fill fitting.

EDIT: The toilets are a couple Rosarios and a San Martine (both discontinued now).

Last edited by futz; 09-27-2010 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:24 AM   #9
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If you put the tube of a 400a in the water it will siphon.
Siphon what? To where?
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:27 AM   #10
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I used a dab of 2 part epoxy in the 400A. Worked great.
Now that just makes me worry. Epoxy on plastic, unless you can rough up that plastic aggressively to give the epoxy something to key into, could slip. Then it would pop out and squirt out under the edge of the lid, damaging dude's super expensive house. Plastic is too slippery for epoxy to stick well to, in my opinion.
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