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Old 04-05-2011, 12:55 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nextfox View Post
Gentleman,

If you want to bash all of the junk in the market, I will be happy to read it and I am sure I will enjoy it. All of the companies that claim salt- less softening are out to lunch, with the exception of the suppliers of Reverse Osmosis, and the electrically operated CDI and EDI products.

As professional plumbers I would assume you are up to speed on LEED’s and all of the latest green building trends. If you work with tank less water heaters, I assume you are aware of the Noritz H2Flow. If you work with any of the large contracting and architectural firms, I assume you are aware of the OneFlow product. If not, then you are missing out on some of the largest plumbing jobs in the U.S. Good for you! Some people find it profitable to keep up with technology.

The study I mentioned is funded by the Water Reuse Foundation (you may know them) and Arizona State University, the largest University in the United States, received the grant to do the study. The ASU researchers released a report on November 19th that showed Template Assisted Crystallization to be a very effective scale control technology, not a softener. I believe the figures were that it was about 97% effective at preventing scale. I got on this thread as it started with a question about Template Assisted Crystallization. Then I read all of the less than accurate comments. I just thought I would point to some actual research and some examples of commercial success and opportunities on the thread. It seems to be much more practical compared to some of the streaming consciousness babble posted previously.
Last post (yeah right). This OneFlow is made by Watts. It is crap. Several units were installed in a major hospital just two months ago. They were using it to soften the feed water on a steam boiler... the boilers scaled up within a month. Brand new Fulton boilers scaled to hell. The OneFlow tanks are in a land fill somewhere now.

What netfox is missing is that maybe there is a lot of work for crap technology like this, but I think I will pass on it so I can keep my reputation intact. That will be more benificial in the long run.

What's funny is that the Watts rep said we cycled the boilers too high and that's why they scaled. When I told him that these cycles were that a traditional softener could handle he tried to say "yeah but your green and no brine discharge". Well BS my friends. Here's where all of the greenies fall apart: The amount of additional natural gas you have to use by lowering the cycles was equivalent to neary $400,000 per year for these two 400 hp boilers. The amount of additional CO2 introduced into the atmosphere because of the extra natural gas would have equaled over 8,200 metric tons per year. Now I dont care about CO2 or global warming, but LEED claims to, so where is the true "Green" technology... traditional softeners are a hell of a lot greener than anything out there except for membranes (Reverse Osmosis & Nano Filtration) and those are pricey. So whenever someone says it's green, 99% of the time it's not... they just want your green

Last edited by tlong; 04-05-2011 at 01:21 AM..
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:55 PM   #62
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Thanks tlong for all the useful info. I vote you stay.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:11 PM   #63
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Everyone....go here http://www.chem1.com/CQ/index.html read this.
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #64
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I recently spoke with the OneFlow product manager and he did not recommend it for closed-loop systems. We have had success with template assisted crystallization in a large number of single pass applications. Here is a link for a recent presentation done at the Water Reuse Conference that many of you might find interesting.

https://www.watereuse.org/sites/defa...eter%20Fox.pdf

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) water chemistry is very complex and there are as many variations in water make up as there are stars in the sky and the different applications add to the challenges. Like most water treatment solutions, TAC is not the single perfect silver bullet solution but it has its merits in the right applications within the boundaries of what it is capable of.

The single most frustrating thing about this kind of technology is that to date, there is not a viable, easy-to-perform field test that proves the technology is working. The test above is the first non-biased, fact-based measurement of the effectiveness of the different alternative to softeners technology. It is worth looking at, the industry needed this type of non-emotional, non-anecdotal analysis.

For the uninitiated, there are still people out there that do not believe that we ever landed on the moon and that it was staged.
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:25 PM   #65
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:39 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OptiTech View Post
I recently spoke with the OneFlow product manager and he did not recommend it for closed-loop systems. We have had success with template assisted crystallization in a large number of single pass applications. Here is a link for a recent presentation done at the Water Reuse Conference that many of you might find interesting.

https://www.watereuse.org/sites/default/files/u3/Peter%20Fox.pdf

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) water chemistry is very complex and there are as many variations in water make up as there are stars in the sky and the different applications add to the challenges. Like most water treatment solutions, TAC is not the single perfect silver bullet solution but it has its merits in the right applications within the boundaries of what it is capable of.

The single most frustrating thing about this kind of technology is that to date, there is not a viable, easy-to-perform field test that proves the technology is working. The test above is the first non-biased, fact-based measurement of the effectiveness of the different alternative to softeners technology. It is worth looking at, the industry needed this type of non-emotional, non-anecdotal analysis.

For the uninitiated, there are still people out there that do not believe that we ever landed on the moon and that it was staged.
I have no problem believing that Apollo 11's LEM Module landed at the Sea Of Tranquility....

But I do have a very difficult time believing that any of that any of that VooDoo crap you are pushing works....

Now I'm going to glean a few useful tidbits out of the information you have provided... Thank you...
  • OneFlow product manager said he did not recommend it for closed-loop systems.
  • TAC is not the single perfect silver bullet solution.
  • To date, there is not a viable, easy-to-perform field test that proves the technology is working.
  • The Study You cited essentially says that ElectroMagnetic and Electrically Induced Precipitation doesn't work...
  • But it is 2 times better than nothing at all...
% Ca in scale formed
EIP: 34.88
MAG: 34.88

Ca as CaCO3 Found on Heating Element and Bath (g)
No Treatment: 8.36
EIP: 4.07
MAG: 4.86


Total calcium formed during test (g Ca as CaCO3)
No Treatment: 24.92
EIP: 13.40
MAG: 13.20

I love it now that you Snake Oil Peddlers are now starting to rank on each others bogus technology...

Now we'll just wait for the other side to show up and drop a big ol Cleveland Steamer on your products with a study that says TAC and CDI doesn't work...

One thing for sure they don't dare include a conventional water softener that uses the Ion Exchange Method in the study...

Have a Nice Day!

Oh By The Way...
Have we met?
Read This... http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/

And remember this forum is for...

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Old 05-21-2011, 10:38 AM   #67
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When the Navy starts using something OTHER than ion resin exchange to demineralize the primary coolant water in nuclear reactors, then so will I.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:06 AM   #68
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This scam never seems to go away. You can go back close to 100 years and find the same claims by snake oil salesmen. Within a year of Edison, Tesla and Westinghouse making electricity available to the general public there were companies making magnetic and electronic water conditioners. They didn't work then and they don't work now. Unfortunatly companies like Easy Water have the money to invest heavily in advertising and...most often that advertising is done on talk radio shows by hosts that are supposed to be stand up guys. Does anybody here really believe that Sean Hannity has an Easy Water strapped to his water pipes? These companies are selling snake oil. Now if you will excuse me I have to finish up this article on another gigantic scam perpetrated on the American public and that would be Bio-Fuels.

Oh an Tlong, you are dead on target here, thank you. I hope they let you stick around and....there are other sites that could use your two cents also
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:00 AM   #69
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In other Magnetic News....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9kT0EwVvU"]YouTube - ‪Magnetic Boy Attracts Electronic and Metal Objects‬‏[/ame]
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:46 PM   #70
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