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Old 05-27-2010, 03:48 PM   #1
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Default Template Assisted Crystallization

I have not yet been willing to sell any of the "no salt water conditioners". Although I really love the idea, I just don't have confidence in any of the types that use some type of electrical or magnetic field to a "alter" the structure of hard water minerals.

Now I'm reading about systems using "template assisted crystallization" whatever the heck that is. Can anybody offer a simple explanation on how it works and more importantly, does it work.

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Old 05-27-2010, 09:21 PM   #2
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If it's what I think it is, it has something to do with "lubricating" the calcium micro particulate in an effort for it to not build up. It's all BS IMO. As the guy who sells me my softeners told me, "If it worked, I'd be selling it". Companies like Pentair - GE - Clack have spent tens of millions on this research, and as far as I know, there is nothing available for the market. If you hear otherwise, leme know.
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:48 PM   #3
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You should buy one for your house. After that, I've got a great little machine for $4000 that will make your drinking water alkaline and micro oxygenate it. This treated water will make you feel great.

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Originally Posted by smellslike$tome View Post
I have not yet been willing to sell any of the "no salt water conditioners". Although I really love the idea, I just don't have confidence in any of the types that use some type of electrical or magnetic field to a "alter" the structure of hard water minerals.

Now I'm reading about systems using "template assisted crystallization" whatever the heck that is. Can anybody offer a simple explanation on how it works and more importantly, does it work.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:05 AM   #4
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You should buy one for your house. After that, I've got a great little machine for $4000 that will make your drinking water alkaline and micro oxygenate it. This treated water will make you feel great.
Ok, I guess I'm slightly disappointed and surprised at your response Pro. I hold you to be someone who invests a significant amount of time educating yourself about a great many things. This is obvious to anyone who has interacted with you on this sight over the last couple of years. I would say that your knowledge is generally valued and your opinions generally respected by most, myself included.

I do not know whether TAC works or is just another gimmick but I gotta tell you that if all I had to go on was your response, then I still wouldn't know anything about it. To dismiss it out of hand does not reflect the open mindedness I have come to expect from you. Maybe it is all crap. There have been many posers attempt to knock the salt softener off of the top of the hill and it seems they all have failed. However, does this mean that nothing better will EVER be developed. If it's hocus pocus then fine, I'll be disappointed again but if you don't KNOW that it is, why do you assume that it is. Oh btw, if it turns out to be legitimate, you better know that I can pair it with a carbon filter and sell the crap out of the systems for $4500 and up . If Culligan and RainSoft are getting $7500 for a salt softener and carbon filter I will have no trouble selling for the 5k range, add a NR98DVC and I'm looking at a nice 10K ticket for 2 days work.

Again, does anybody KNOW anything about this?
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:13 AM   #5
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I have installed a couple of these, http://www.easywater.com/

Now whether or not they work, I could not tell you.

But here are some reviews about the product.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...y-c213755.html

Hope this helps in your mission to conquer the world, or at least Birmingham, possibly the state of Alabama.

BTW, these were owner bought and purchased units, and for my lectrician and I to team up, and install these together, made for some easy money.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
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If it's what I think it is, it has something to do with "lubricating" the calcium micro particulate in an effort for it to not build up. It's all BS IMO. As the guy who sells me my softeners told me, "If it worked, I'd be selling it". Companies like Pentair - GE - Clack have spent tens of millions on this research, and as far as I know, there is nothing available for the market. If you hear otherwise, leme know.
I never knew about it until it turned up on Noritz's website. I called Jason today and although I still can't really tell you how it's supposed to work exactly, I can say that they are claiming 99.6% effectiveness over a 4 year independent in home tests. The main thing I wanted to know from him was is Noritz going to put there money where there mouth is, that is, will it eliminate all potential warranty glitches based on water quality. A year ago Noritz, to the best of my knowledge, had no published water quality requirements with respect to their warranty. Sometime during the last year they began to publish water hardness requirements for maintaining the warranty. Jason tells me that the product that is being offered satisfies all warranty issues at least as far as 75 grains which covers everything here with the possible exception of the odd well system.

So I don't know it's possible that the water quality requirements is just Noritz cya language. Maybe they fully intend to replace heat exchangers regardless of water quality. Maybe this is just an upsale item and if it doesn't work, no sweat, they will send you a new heat exchanger anyway. Who knows, all I know is that I don't care for salt softeners personally or professionally. I've seen 2" drain lines completely closed off with what I'm pretty sure was hardened brine/hard water mineral back wash. I don't like the backwash disposal requirements. I don't want to send it to a septic system at all. I don't want to install them only to have the ho call me up wanting to know why the water feels so slimy. I'd love to find an alternative THAT WORKS. If TAC isn't it, fine I'll keep waiting, fortunately there are only a very few areas here that have very hard water. The vast majority of my area would be classified as moderately hard.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:34 AM   #7
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Have you tried NM or H2o H? Ive done a few of each. There are pros and cons to salt softeners and "salt-less" types. We have Very Hard water in FL. If they are on well water then I cant say from experience what the NM will do. They have some new stuff that just came out thats supposed to be for Very Hard well water but havent seen it in action yet. On municipal water you dont NEED a softener as it has already been "softened" to an acceptable level in most cases. The NM units Ive installed on city water have created more than happy customers. The taste kinda reminds me of the Fiji brand bottled water. They have biased me against "softeners". Why on earth anybody would remove 100% of the calcium and magnesium in water and replace it with sodium is beyond me. It is good for you, acts as a buffer to balance the Ph, and has no odor. (Try doing a Ph test on softened or RO water. It falls in the "Add Ph Stab" level of the scale, and that is just for swimming). It is a nuisance though. The list of pros and cons is pretty long. Both sides have valid points and propaganda on the list. The no salt units cost more and arent for everyone. So I sell both. To answer your question, Ive never heard of TAC until now.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:39 AM   #8
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I think you worry too much.
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Old 05-28-2010, 01:08 AM   #9
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I looked into the no-salt softeners about a year ago. I could find no INDEPENDANT tests that prove that they reduce boiler scale or water spots. If anyone does ever find any such testing please post it.

I don't know enough about chemistry to know if the theory is hogwash or not. My understanding of how they work is as follows:

Media type: Example "pelican"

A crystal seed site on the media allows calcium carbonate crystals to grow preferentially on the media. When these micro crystals grow to a sufficient size, they break off of the media when the media is tumbled from the water flow. The crystals are now is solid form and not dissolved in the aqueous solution (the potable water). Since the micro crystals have already been grown and are suspended in the water, they pass harmlessly thru heating surfaces and do not form boiler scale crystals.

High frequency electro-magnetic filed type: Example "easy water".

A high frequency electromagnetic field is induced into the pipe via a field fabricated copper coil around the pipe. Said field somehow shocks the aqueous calcium and magnesium ions into forming micro-crystalline salts. The already formed crystals pass harmlessly thru heat exchangers as they have already formed boiler scale crystals in the field.

That is the theory anyway. Does it actually go down that way? Who knows? If it does work as they say, I would think those micro crystals would cause impingement damage to the pipe walls in high velocity areas of the system. My brother works at a medical research lab that has access to an electron microscope. Anyone want to donate a unit so we can scan for micro crystals?

For now, I put no-salt softeners in the snake oil category. I will however install one for any home owner who would like to throw some money away and give me a cut.


And that’s all I have to say about that
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #10
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When you search around on these products, there are sometimes references to "government tests" and "industrial appliactions" and such. I don't remember actually reading anything which looked like an approval, or even whether any of these are actually in use in an industrial or government application.

I was in nuclear submarines. We had to have pure water for the boiler ( steam generator). We got it the old fashioned way....ion exchange resin demineralizer.
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