Ballcock with pressure relief built in - Plumbing Zone

Redwood · 02-06-2010, 12:35 PM

I'm wondering if any of you have ever run across one of these...

http://www.watts.com/pdf/S-GOV80.pdf

They are a ballcock that has an 80-psi relief valve installed and are marketed as a solution for thermal expansion in a closed system.

I've never seen one until the other day when I was at the Watts website getting some info links for a thermal expansion discussion here. It looks like a case where if you did run across one of these changing a ballcock that wasn't leaking could upset the apple cart and start a T&P discharging.

I can't say that I'm a fan of using pressure relief to control thermal expansions effects and I would naturally lean towards installing a tank but, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this product...

DUNBAR PLUMBING · 02-06-2010, 12:53 PM

They've been out for years.

Wasteful product when it comes to water usage.

TheMaster · 02-06-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwood

I'm wondering if any of you have ever run across one of these...

http://www.watts.com/pdf/S-GOV80.pdf

They are a ballcock that has an 80-psi relief valve installed and are marketed as a solution for thermal expansion in a closed system.

I've never seen one until the other day when I was at the Watts website getting some info links for a thermal expansion discussion here. It looks like a case where if you did run across one of these changing a ballcock that wasn't leaking could upset the apple cart and start a T&P discharging.

I can't say that I'm a fan of using pressure relief to control thermal expansions effects and I would naturally lean towards installing a tank but, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this product...

I've never seen one in person but i've seen them online. I think they also make a product that screws onto your hose faucet and then you leave the faucet open,it relives the pressure. I agree with you that a tank is the best control method and second method is basic pressure relief valve with the proper relief setting. If I had a closed system I'd also install a gauge if it were my home in between the water heater and the ex. tank.

Protech · 02-06-2010, 05:28 PM

Why would a tank be better than a valve? A valve fails open while a tank fails closed. If a bladder goes out on a tank and there is now no control for thermal expansion, something could burst causing massive property damage. If a valve goes bad an starts dripping, the plumber gets called out to replace it and check for other problems (if he's worth a damn that is).

As far as water usage with a relief valve goes, it's sutch a small amount that it's negligable. Small price to pay if you are guaranteed not to have an over pressure condition. I stick to my $5 relief valves thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwood

I'm wondering if any of you have ever run across one of these...

http://www.watts.com/pdf/S-GOV80.pdf

They are a ballcock that has an 80-psi relief valve installed and are marketed as a solution for thermal expansion in a closed system.

I've never seen one until the other day when I was at the Watts website getting some info links for a thermal expansion discussion here. It looks like a case where if you did run across one of these changing a ballcock that wasn't leaking could upset the apple cart and start a T&P discharging.

I can't say that I'm a fan of using pressure relief to control thermal expansions effects and I would naturally lean towards installing a tank but, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up on this product...

**Matt** · 02-06-2010, 05:31 PM

I don't like em. HO keeps hearing the WC runl. What are they gonna do? They will march right to homie and buy a 400a.

Protech · 02-06-2010, 05:38 PM

I'm right there with you on the ballcock kinds. I was referring to the ones that you install on the heater.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILPlumber

I don't like em. HO keeps hearing the WC runl. What are they gonna do? They will march right to homie and buy a 400a.

Redwood · 02-06-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protech

Why would a tank be better than a valve? A valve fails open while a tank fails closed. If a bladder goes out on a tank and there is now no control for thermal expansion, something could burst causing massive property damage. If a valve goes bad an starts dripping, the plumber gets called out to replace it and check for other problems (if he's worth a damn that is).

Ummm wouldn't there be a T&P on the water heater piped to a safe discharge location where property damage would not occur? That seems to be the norm for code compliance in my neck of the woods...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protech

As far as water usage with a relief valve goes, it's sutch a small amount that it's negligable. Small price to pay if you are guaranteed not to have an over pressure condition. I stick to my $5 relief valves thank you.

And with a properly functioning thermal expansion tank there is zero discharge.

TheMaster · 02-06-2010, 05:47 PM

I dont think a relief valve acts quick enough. I've personally seen new 150# temp and pressure relief valves hold over 200 psi. They finally open but they are slow to act.

Protech · 02-06-2010, 06:12 PM

I've seen plenty of supply lines, as well as plastic pipes burst below 150psi. Most codes stat that the T/P "shall not be used as a means of thermal expansion control".

Also, those tanks provide a nice warm, stagnant, iron ritch environment for Legionella and other nasty bugs to grow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwood

Ummm wouldn't there be a T&P on the water heater piped to a safe discharge location where property damage would not occur? That seems to be the norm for code compliance in my neck of the woods...

And with a properly functioning thermal expansion tank there is zero discharge.

TheMaster · 02-06-2010, 06:21 PM

I consider the valves you use protech what they are a pressure relief valve however even tho they are adjustable I dont fell like they act quick enough. So the pressure might go up above the set point.....no good,plus they dont always fail open. They dribble water and can clogg up over time just like a t&P valve can do. The tank will control the pressure smoothly while the other may pop off below or above the ideal set point. The water in the tanks not stagnant it exchanges when/if the pressure builds and is released. The tank can be remotely located on the cold water line....it doesn't hafta be at the heater,but I pipe them in between the water heaters stop valve and the water heater.

02-06-2010, 12:53 PM	#2
DUNBAR PLUMBING MASTER PLUMBER Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NORTHERN KENTUCKY - GREATER CINCINNATI AREA Posts: 2,100 My Photos	They've been out for years. Wasteful product when it comes to water usage. __________________ Northern Kentucky Plumbers \| YouTube Videos \| Twitter Feed

02-06-2010, 05:31 PM	#5
Matt ex-apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seated at the computer Posts: 3,314 My Photos	I don't like em. HO keeps hearing the WC runl. What are they gonna do? They will march right to homie and buy a 400a. __________________ Whatever it is, I'm over-qualified

02-06-2010, 05:47 PM	#8
TheMaster Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4,364 My Photos	I dont think a relief valve acts quick enough. I've personally seen new 150# temp and pressure relief valves hold over 200 psi. They finally open but they are slow to act. __________________ "Small time Hack making Big time Jack"

02-06-2010, 06:21 PM	#10
TheMaster Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4,364 My Photos	I consider the valves you use protech what they are a pressure relief valve however even tho they are adjustable I dont fell like they act quick enough. So the pressure might go up above the set point.....no good,plus they dont always fail open. They dribble water and can clogg up over time just like a t&P valve can do. The tank will control the pressure smoothly while the other may pop off below or above the ideal set point. The water in the tanks not stagnant it exchanges when/if the pressure builds and is released. The tank can be remotely located on the cold water line....it doesn't hafta be at the heater,but I pipe them in between the water heaters stop valve and the water heater. __________________ "Small time Hack making Big time Jack" Last edited by TheMaster; 02-06-2010 at 06:23 PM.

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